BNI: Brilliant Lead Gen or a Hard Sell in Disguise?

If you've been a self-employed HR Consultant for longer than 5 minutes, then the chances are you've been invited to join BNI.

Maybe you tried it out. Maybe you didn’t.

But either way, you’ve probably heard one of two things…

“It’s a silver bullet for business success – all my clients come from BNI.”

Or, 

“It’s a cliquey cult with fake referrals where you’re forced to build everyone else’s business instead of your own. Avoid it like the plague."

So which is it?

Well, in this episode, I’m joined by someone who knows BNI inside and out — a HR Consultant and the President of a BNI chapter, Sarah May.

So join us as we dig into the truth about how BNI works, who it’s really for, and whether it’s actually worth your time, energy and money.

Because if you've ever wondered whether BNI is a hidden goldmine or just a very expensive breakfast club — this episode's for you.

You'll discover:

• ☠️ Is BNI a cult?
• 🤑 Can you build a HR Consultancy business that earns £70K or more just by using BNI?
• 🤷‍♂️ What are the benefits and disadvantages of joining BNI?
• 👀 Would I join BNI?
• 🕵‍♂️ What to expect at a BNI meeting.
• 💭 Is BNI just a bunch of fake referrals? 

And much, much more!

Want My Help to Build Your £70K+ HR Consultancy?

1️⃣ Grab a copy of my book – The Complete Guide to Building a £70K HR Consultancy – and discover how to get every lead and client you need.

2️⃣ Apply to Join The Fastlane Formula – so we can work together 1-to-1 to get you earning £70K+ faster (and easier) than going it alone.

Transcript

Sarah May and Nick Poninski - 2025/04/24 13:28 BST – Transcript

Attendees

Nick Poninski, Sarah May

Transcript

Nick Poninski: Hello there and welcome back to another episode of marketing made easy for consultants with me Nick Poninski. On today's episode I'm joined by Sarah May HR consultant extraordinaire who is a experienced R consultant. She's been self-employed for over two years now,…

Nick Poninski: working in HRI for over 12 years. And she is also the chapter president of Brighton Pavilion BNI. I got there. Thank you for joining me, Sarah. Yeah,…

Sarah May: Thank you for having me.

Nick Poninski: no problem. it's good to have you on. Obviously, we've exchanged a few messages on LinkedIn, had a few comments here and there, and yeah, it's good to finally meet

Sarah May: 

Sarah May: Thank Yeah, I enjoy your posts on LinkedIn.

Sarah May: They draw me in. So, you're clearly good at your job. He didn't pay me to say that.

Nick Poninski: Thanks Sarah.

Nick Poninski: That's such a lovely thing to say. I appreciate that. And obviously for me and We were talking before this recording and I was saying to Sarah how much I love her branding. for those of you who don't know, Sarah is Mayday. it's fantastic, Brandon. but yes, so Sarah today She is going to talk to us today about BNI. And I have asked Sarah to join me because I have asked chat GPT. I said, I've got a guest coming onto my podcast today to talk about She's a HR consultant and also a chapter president. What questions should I ask in order to discuss BNI properly and whether it's a worthwhile investment for consultants?

Nick Poninski: and chat GPT has given me about 17 questions to go through.

Nick Poninski: So whether we'll get through them all or not is here or there. But for now, question number one, Sarah, are you ready?

Sarah May: I'm very ready.

Sarah May: Very ready.

Nick Poninski: Love it. So this one's a nice softball one. Tell us a bit about your business as a HR consultant.

Nick Poninski: Who do you typically help and what kind of work do you do?

Sarah May: So, my business is Mayday HR and…

Sarah May: I specialize in to the world it's employee relations because we all know that's what it's called but to everybody else it's emergencies hence the mayday so I spend a lot of my time dealing with all the dramas that no one else likes dealing with disciplinaries dismissals complex cases etc etc but I much prefer helping people prevent them in the first place with good line manager training for business owners. And I also offer a retainer service for micro businesses as well…

Sarah May: who might not need full service but definitely need an HR person in their corner and they're quite a high-risisk area as well. And I've been going for about two years based in Brighton but can cover the whole of the UK.

Nick Poninski: I like that.

Nick Poninski: That's really smart that you've niched down because HR is such a broad church.

Sarah May: Yes. Yes,…

Nick Poninski: It could cover, mergers and acquisitions, QP employee on boarding, where if you've cut out a little piece of the puzzle for yourself.

Sarah May: because I've always been an specialist in my in-house roles, but when I started my business, I kind of ended up being a generalist and I ended up hating it and I was like, why am I doing work I don't want to do. It's about six months in I decided to specialize in a niche and also ich especially in employee relations people come to you when there's a problem so they'll pay you more money. so that's another good thing about niching is you can command a higher price I would say and also I enjoy it. I'm one of those weird people that believes that you can dismiss people and…

Sarah May: dismiss them And I mean obviously I don't get a buzz from sacking someone but I definitely get a buzz from teaching people how you can do it I've made people redundant and they've shaken my hand at the end and said thank you. So it absolutely can be done properly and…

Nick Poninski: Nice. …

Sarah May: that's what I'm passionate about.

Nick Poninski: I like That's awesome. And just to flick back to what you were saying there, my most downloaded podcast episode is with another consultant who specializes in redundancies.

Nick Poninski: And the idea that you can niche down was something that she covered because she said, "This is how I built my business. I am one area of HR. They know what they're getting.

Sarah May: And you're a specialist and…

Sarah May: then if you're known for that and also because if you're a generalist you talk too broadly about things and you'll know you can't then talk to your ideal client because how are you hitting the pain points whereas if you niche it's a lot easier to do your marketing and…

Sarah May: everything like that because you're niching down and talking about a specific thing. So, a lot easier to talk to your target audience as well.

Nick Poninski: Yes. Love it.

Nick Poninski: So, just FYI for those listening along, I did not pay Sarah to say that. It's just, the truth.

Nick Poninski: Niche. So, Love Question two, you're also a BNI chapter president. How did you get involved and what made you stick it out long enough to take on a leadership role?

00:05:00

Sarah May: The first thing I should probably explain is…

Sarah May: what BNI is for people…

Nick Poninski: I love that.

Sarah May: because they might not know…

Nick Poninski: For those who don't know. Yeah.

Sarah May: what it is. So, a lot of people will have heard of BNI and then they'll see a lot of people say they don't like it.  BNI is networking, but it's a different kind of networking. It's called referral networking. and there's a few principles about NI. it's a weekly commitment. You turn up every week to your chapter and you network. But the whole idea is that you've got a group of 30 people. It's a lockout organization. So, for example, I'm the only HR consultant in the chapter. there's only one marketing agency, etc.

Sarah May: And so you lock out your competition and then the whole idea is that you build partnerships with these people and refer and refer to each other. But it's important to know that you're not selling to the you're selling to the room's network. every Wednesday morning I go to a meeting and I am training 30 people in my sales team to go out and make referrals for me and I do the same for them. and yeah, there's some rules and there's some structure and there's some accountability and not everybody likes that. however, it works for me because actually if you're accountable to the number of oneto ones you have, the amount of referrals you make, how much business you're getting to people, it really does work and the philosophy of BNI is give if I give business to you, you'll want to give me business in return. That doesn't mean you have to give business to people. You still have to build no and trust. If someone Am I allowed to say*** on your podcast? if someone's a d*******,…

Nick Poninski: Thank you.

Sarah May: I'd said it because you told me you weren't going to edit anything out. but you don't have to refer to them. So you still have to build those relationships but that's so much easier to do it every week. And so I went along 18 months ago now and I turned up to a meeting having previously said to someone no I don't want to join. I don't want to go. And they said just come along And straight away I was in that room going wow these people are turning up and they like each other. They're all friends. Hang on a sec.

Sarah May: They're all friends and they're turning up and they were hugging each other and you could see real friendship and…

Nick Poninski: Peace.

Sarah May: and love in the room. But then also there was business and I mean my chapter last year there's 30 plus members. We passed 2 million pounds worth of business between us all. we were the top performing chapter in the region. So there's a lot of business flying around that room. And so to answer your question for the first six months I was like right I'm just going to give as much as I can to this room. So, I made sure I got my business cards from the printer. I used the photographer for my photography when I needed my shower fixed. I called the plumber and made sure that I used the services of the people in the room, but then also gave really good referrals, got to know people so that I absolutely knew…

Nick Poninski: Nice.

Sarah May: what they were looking for. And what I like about BNI is it basically mirrors what I believe about the rules of the universe, You put it in to get it out. The rules of the universe. if you believe in the universe, BNI will work. And so I did that for six months and someone told me when I first started that what will happen to start with is no one will use you because they'll want to get to know you and then the room will start using you. And after a few months, maybe six months, they'll start referring you to their clients their friends or their whatever. And that's exactly what happens. And now I would say probably a third of my business comes from Just over a third, I reckon.

Sarah May: And how I got to be a president. I was asked after six months if I joined the membership committee. so in BNI we run it as a business. So there's a secretary treasurer who looks after the money and then there's a membership committee who does all new applications, vets people, deals with any conflict of interest, plans for the future growth. So we run it as a business. So I was on the membership committee for a while and then I became vice president, which is a really tough job. because that's really the vice president has the power. they have to run the chapter. The president all they need to do is turn up and lead a good meeting, They're the figurehead. And so I was then asked to be president. And I've been doing that since the beginning of this month. And basically I love the chapter.

Sarah May: And so being part of the decisions of how that chapter grows and develops is really important to me because …

Nick Poninski: Nice.

Sarah May: if you care about something and it works for you you obviously want it to do So therefore I invite people. last year I invited more visitors than anyone else because I wanted and actually two of my visitors joined. so I invited people because I think this is brilliant. Come along and see for yourself. so I'm a massive advocate for BNI because it absolutely can work. So yeah, I just love it and so yeah, being part being able to be the face of it and to lead a good meeting because it's a very high energy two hours.

00:10:00

Nick Poninski: It's like a job you've effectively taken on with a lot of responsibilities. Yes.

Sarah May: I'm exhausted afterwards. I now take Wednesday afternoons off because I can't cope with the whole day. But if you think about it, you're leading these 30 people. They've got to want to turn up. we need to make sure that they renew every year. So we need to make sure that they're getting their return on investment.  And so the running the meeting is part of that. And yeah, but also the other but what I would say as well though is if anybody who's listening who does BNI or is thinking about it taking on a top table position, we call it a top table in BNI, it's not a cult, I promise. But taking on a top table position or any kind of leadership role, for example, there's other roles like we have somebody who's our education coordinator.

Sarah May: So we have an ED slot every week where somebody teaches us something on a skill about your business so our marketing agency guy is the ED coordinator. So as a result of that he gets those speaking gigs because he's a good speaker, so anything you do that's an additional role increases your visibility and…

Sarah May: credibility. And so I started volunteering to do some ED slots and then I was on the committee. So people then again it builds into that and…

Nick Poninski: Yeah. No.

Sarah May: trust of at what she's doing. she's good at organizing us. perhaps you'll be good at sorting out my HR. so I think it's as a result taking on additional responsibility as well is good for your business because it increases your visibility and credibility. Mhm.

Nick Poninski: 100%. It's interesting that you share that from another perspective. This morning I was looking at working for charities for free just to share my experience because as you say the more people you expose yourself to in a public setting the you say givers game and…

Sarah May: Absolutely. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: I'm not in BNI…

Sarah May: And it's Yes.

Nick Poninski: but I understand that rule of reciprocity makes a lot of sense.

Sarah May: Absolutely. But it's also about knowing that,…

Sarah May: it's not just about, the electrician's in my chapter, so I'm going to recommend him. you still have to build that. I still have to know that actually he's going to turn up, that he's going to do a good job.

Nick Poninski: Yeah.

Sarah May: And you do that by building those relationships over time. and so that's why I said, the room will start using you and then they'll start referring you and then they'll hear back from their clients that actually you were good, so they'll refer you again. and so for example, in BNI, if you don't turn up because you have to turn up to the meeting or you have to send a substitute.

Nick Poninski: Yes. Trust you.

Sarah May: If you send too many subs and you're never in the room, you'll lose the room. People won't refer to you. But also, you got to turn up.  If you say you don't have oneto ones or you don't turn up to you oneto ones or you never follow up on a referral. People won't refer to and so often I have it when And people will come to me and say I'm not getting out much out of the room. I think I want to leave. because we obviously measure what their contribution is. I'll look at them and I'll go look at your stats. you've only done four oneto ones in the past three months. and you haven't made any referrals. So no wonder you're not doing run out of the room.

Sarah May: And so the whole idea is the more you give the more you will get. And that is absolutely true. I mean I'm normally top five in the region in Sussex. so I get my face on all the gas top five. but as a result I have other people contacting me saying can I have a onetoone with you? I want to hear about how you do it. Just this morning I had a onetoone with somebody who's a chapter member in Brmley because she pursued me and said can we have a chat?

Nick Poninski: Amazing. You're a key person of influence and…

Sarah May: And so, I've met people up and down the country in BNI. so people will perceive you to say, you're clearly good at this. Let's have a chat. So, yeah.

Nick Poninski: you are getting sought out for your opinion. Hence this speaking sense this podcast.

Sarah May: Yes. Yes. Yes. …

Nick Poninski: As soon as you posted on LinkedIn that you were the chapter president,…

Sarah May: Shameless plug.

Nick Poninski: I says, "Okay, let's get her on." As I say, we've been exchanging messages and comments and posts or whatever, and I thought, this would be a great opportunity to because BNI isn't something I'm in, I cover it in my new book, which if you haven't got it, if you're listening along, make sure to do …

Sarah May: Shameless plug.

Nick Poninski: but I do cover BNI and basically give a positives and negatives because I've been along for a few meetings and that's my perspective, but it's not a full experience like yours.

Nick Poninski: So, it's great to have you on to share that.

Sarah May: No. And the other thing I would say…

Sarah May: because I meet a lot of consultants who hate networking. Won't do it. And I've even met there was one lady who'd been in her business two years and she'd never done networking. And I remember having a call with her and she said, "I'm really struggling for business." And I was like, "You need to network." And she didn't want to.  So now she's found online network and she's happy with it. But most people I meet either don't like networking or don't think it works. And the reason it doesn't work is because you go to these business breakfasts and it's full of either employees who have been sent there or salespeople and then people turn up and they make small talk and then they go away again. first of all, the way you work make networking separate to BNI work is you've got to follow up. You've got to have ones with the people that you think are good referral partners in general anyway.

00:15:00

Sarah May: So if you think about it, BNI is a mechanism where you're doing that week in week out. And so what I did when I joined BNI is I dropped loads of other networking because actually the return on investment and time is far greater in BNI than going to all these other business breakfast and lunches that actually didn't yield me anything or they're a bit hit and miss.  And so if you're sitting there thinking I know networking is good for me but I can't find a group that's good or I don't seem to get business from it or you're making the mistake of going and trying to find clients in the room which they're the unicorns. You have to get really lucky to do that. You're really finding people that will talk about you when you're not there. And especially consultants if you think about it no one goes into a room and goes I want to make someone redundant. they'll be telling someone else onetoone our business is really tough

Sarah May: I don't know what to do.

Sarah May: And someone will go, I met a really good HR person the other day. Do you want me to introduce you to them?" That's how it works. And especially for where people aren't, going about shouting from the rooftops what they've got people problems. so it's about making sure that more people know about you the better because then they'll talk about you when you're not there.

Nick Poninski: Love it.

Nick Poninski: Yes. I think that's the bit that people Yeah.

Nick Poninski: I think there are two misunderstandings about networking. I think there's that one where people think that they can go along and find clients, but then there's the other one of following up with these people, building a relationship, etc. I think's that people misunderstand

Sarah May: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah May: And also about when I meet people I just ask them loads of questions. Be interested and interesting. very rarely do they ask me about me because I'm too busy asking them questions and just being interested.  So, they'll come away going, she was nice." They'll know I do because my badge says and they'll say, "She was nice. and that's often sometimes all it is people going, "I met a nice HR person the other day." And yeah, then you build from it. So, you work out the people that your ideal referral partners. but that's even separate to BNI. if you need to know how to make networking work for you, you do need to be a bit more savvy than just turn up events. it's definitely in the follow-up.

Sarah May: sending the messages before working out how you can help others and go in with an attitude of giving so I'll always ask people so when I'm networking even with or without being I'll always go where do you get your clients from who's your ideal client they're the two questions I ask and how can I help you I'll go right how can I help you and…

Sarah May: I'll always try and add value of go I know this person would be a good introduction for you so I've never still not talked about at this point right but I've helped them and then again that reciprocity will come back at you laws of the universe and…

Nick Poninski: Yes, I love that as well.

Nick Poninski: Just to touch on that, an easy way for somebody to be able to refer you is if you have a niche, if you have a target market,…

Sarah May: knowing your ideal client as well or…

Nick Poninski: right? Yeah. is on.

Sarah May: some people do struggle but I have a saying in BNI you'll like this one Nick I know you will I say to people when you say anyone no one springs to mind okay and…

Nick Poninski: Love it. Yes.

Sarah May: and one of the things about BNI is so every week in BNI you stand up And my chapter has 45 seconds. You have a minute to stand up and say something. And it's not necessarily your elevator pitch because you're talking to the same people every week apart from visitors. So you're sort of training people each week. But ideally what you're asking for is so for example week I said this week I've been helping a social media agency terminate somebody's employment.

Nick Poninski: Anyone?

Sarah May: it's an added complication because she's got mental health challenges and it's got caring responsibilities. Luckily, this agency got me in from the very beginning. So, I've been giving advice all the way along for this high-risisk dismissal so therefore, it's all going to end I help a lot of other marketing agencies specifically. I'm looking a referral for and I named the marketing agency that I wanted to work with. So, straight away they went marketing agency So, someone then goes, "Yeah, I know them. I can introduce you."  But even if they didn't know them, I'm looking for marketing agencies and I do HR for marketing agencies and I've told a story about how that worked. another one we have is fact tell stories sell. So I'll always try and tell a story about something that happened. So even if I'm not asking for something specific because sometimes people don't know, But if you can say, yeah, I helped a tree surgeon business the other day deal with somebody who bought a claim for constructive unfair dismissal. you help tree surgeons?

Sarah May: Yeah, yeah, I'll help all the trades. And that's the conversation, So telling a story about who you've specifically helped, even if so, thinking about an HR consultant who's probably thinking, God, I've got to go to networking. I don't really know who my ideal client is and I definitely can't name a list of people I want to work with, but they can tell stories about So another one I'll say is who's your favorite client? because if you can talk about your favorite client, again, that gives people an idea, okay, you really like working with Great. I know three architects. I'll introduce you. yeah, if you can know the answers to those questions. who's your ideal client or your favorite client and that can really help you in have the answers to those questions.

00:20:00

Sarah May: Don't try and sell Be able to tell people what it is you're looking for.

Nick Poninski: Love it.

Nick Poninski: I love that. Okay. let me ask you a quick question.

Nick Poninski: What kind of time and financial investment does BNI require from you? 6 a.m.

Sarah May: So every week it's a 90 two hours basically in the morning.

Sarah May: So our chapter's 6:30 to 8:30. obviously I get there at 6:00 because I set up so that I love it. I get up at 4:30 on a Wednesday. But I tell you what, every Wednesday is like Let me tell you,…

Nick Poninski: 4:30 a.m.

Sarah May: Wednesdays are like Christmas day. My alarm goes off and I get up straight away. It's really weird. I can't do it on any other day. But I love going to BNI because I love going so it's like Christmas. So yeah, I get up at 4, but I'm weird. I get up there really early anyway. But it's 6:30 to 8:30, right? So You're stuck on that,…

Nick Poninski: 4:30 a.m. Yeah.

Sarah May: aren't you? So the meeting's two hours, but I'm president, right? So I chair the meeting and my last line of the meeting when I say thank you for everybody blah blah blah and I'll say next week's meeting starts now. Because BNI isn't something that you do. It's something that you live in everything that you do. It's in all the conversations that you have when you're chatting to other people. who do Or what do you do? How do you get your business? Yeah, I can help you. So, it goes across the whole week. you don't sit down and some people sit down and look and go, okay, what can I do for half an hour?

Sarah May: But for me, it's definitely a lifestyle. and so I think it's a 2-hour time commitment and…

Nick Poninski: Mhm. …

Sarah May: but obviously it's a lifestyle for the rest of the week. And in terms of funds, I'm going to be really transparent because that I don't…

Nick Poninski: Love a bit of transparency.

Sarah May: if BNIHQ will tell me off of this. I don't know. But I'll tell you right now,…

Nick Poninski: You're president. Tell them to go f*** themselves. Heat.

Sarah May: but it's important to know and I'm actually going to tell you, how quickly I made back my investment. So listen, BNI is not cheap. It's not cheap because you're paying to be membership is a privilege, We only take the be we turn people down when people apply to our chapter. We turn them down if they're not the right person. So, it's absolutely a privilege to join and I literally call us the best networkers in town. So, when you join a chapter, you've got to bear in mind that you are joining you've basically recruited a team of 30 plus salespeople.

Nick Poninski: It's not a lot.

Sarah May: So, you've got to think of it that way. Imagine if you wanted to hire one salesperson in your business, how much it would cost you,  So with that in mind, BNI this is plus VAT but 299 joining fee and it's currently for the year 960. So 1, a bit more than 1,200 quid. I made my no not when you think about how much it costs to pay for a salesperson pay for any outsource sales support. I made my return on investment within two months. That's quite typical. And remember I said earlier I gave the first six months anyway. I didn't expect any referrals.

Sarah May: So, I made my money back very quickly. and also BNI is cumulative. The longer you stay, the more you'll get. It snowballs. And that's how much it costs. And lots of people are like, " that's a lot of money." But actually, how much are you spending on going to all these little lunches that you go to where you don't meet anybody and how much time is that taking out of your week? And add that up over time. I guarantee you'll probably come to almost the same amount. And like I said, I ditch loads. I mean, I still go there. There's one I'm going to give them a shout out because it is brilliant. But Jim, who's now vice president, he was president, he runs big business,…

Nick Poninski: Yeah.  Yes.

Sarah May: Brighton big business breakfast club, third Friday of every month in Brighton. and that's networking, but it's very very different to BNI. And so many people just go for the social because they love it, so I still go to that from time to time because I enjoy going, but I ditched so many other things because they weren't serving me.  So, it is an investment, but I tell you, the majority of people renew for a second year, and then once you renew for a second year, you're normally in for life. We've got people who have been there 18 years. so it definitely works. and don't forget, it's not just referrals, it's peer support.

Sarah May: And also, it's also, like I said, I've now got somebody that will come and fix my shower and will give me a deal on it, who will come and sort my electrics out, who, yesterday,…

Nick Poninski: Easy peasy.

Sarah May: the waste man, Dan, we've got a new mattress. I needed to get rid of a mattress. I messaged him going, can you guys come and pick up my mattress for me?" He did it. Job done. all of a sudden, I've got all these people that can help me in my life. so yeah, it's Brilliant. Yes.

Nick Poninski: I love that. it's in I think the thing that I always say whenever anyone asks me about BNI, I say you can build a successful business out of it. You really I know that even without the fact that I've been a member.

00:25:00

Sarah May: And the other thing to say about that, so BNI gives a lot of training as well. So as part one,…

Nick Poninski: Yes, I know that the online portal

Sarah May: 

Sarah May: You get training when you join, but there's also a podcast. There's an online portal. They give things like presentation skills. They help you with your one minute. every few months, each member gets an opportunity to do a 10-minute presentation. So, mine's actually next week. so I'll do a 10-minute presentation to educate my fellow members more about what I do and who I'm looking for. but what I was going to say was, so if you think about it that let me use Dan the waist man.

Nick Poninski: Yeah.

Sarah May: I'm pretty sure he won't mind me saying when he just started his business,  didn't have any branding or anything. As a result of being at BNI, he's just renewed for a second year. he's now got two people on the payroll. He's rebranded. He's got a website from the people in the room. The website guys helped him with his website. and he's growing his business. because I remember saying to him, you'll need a second ban within two years. and he's now getting to that stage because his business is growing. So, I also know another HR consultant actually who joined a chapter down the road from me, Dawn.

Sarah May: She started when she had no clients, nothing. She literally was, "I'm starting an HR consultancy." And that room helped her to grow. The business coach gave her some free advice. The website guy helped her with her branding. She even changed her business name because he told her it was rubbish and she changed and then her first clients came from that room. which meant she built testimonials. And so, if you're very very new, it Don't think I've got to be established to go because it will help you through the training that you get.  It will help you define your niche and your offering. You stand up every week and they didn't get it that week or okay that my messaging isn't getting through. Okay, I need to tweak it. And you can have oneto ones with people who will give you that feedback. So it'll help you with that as well. You don't have to be a polished professional to turn up.

Sarah May: because I remember one person they stood up and did their 10 minutes and he started talking about his family and he's estranged from his kids and he started welling up when he was doing this 10-minute presentation and you could see he struggled and the rest of the room go on his name I won't say his name they were all willing him on that's special Okay.

Nick Poninski: Nice. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: I like that. just to circle back how I was saying I know with BNI you can build a successful business but I do always say to people I don't like to lie to people. You do have to like you say givers you do have to build everyone else's not everyone else's…

Sarah May: Mhm. Yes. Absolutely.

Nick Poninski: but you have to build everyone else's business as well. It's not like some sort of magic bullet. so with that said I'm going to ask you some potentially difficult questions.

Sarah May: Okay. Yeah,…

Nick Poninski: Are you ready?

Sarah May: I'm ready.

Nick Poninski: Some people feel BNI can be a bit clicky. What would you say to that?

Sarah May: I think that it has its reputation as being a cult. I'd like to flip it on its head and…

Nick Poninski: I don't like the word chapter.

Sarah May: said, "…

Nick Poninski: I'll be honest with you.

Sarah May: we use the word." Yeah.

Nick Poninski: I hate the word chapter.

Sarah May: Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. That's definitely a thing.

Nick Poninski: It's all You don't need to apologize.

Sarah May: Yeah. Yeah,…

Nick Poninski: It's not your fault. It just really rose me up the wrong way.

Sarah May: I but joke about it. So, we'll make jokes about it not being a cult. but I think I'd flip it on its head and I'd say, but with the clique, you get exclusivity. So, actually being part of that clique means that people will only refer to you. They're not going to refer. So, when you join BNI and you join that chapter, you're locking out your competitors. If that's a clique, I'd say it was quite a beneficial clique, wouldn't you? The other thing I would say is we do make visitor the meeting agenda is for the visitors right so ors most weeks we have visitors days and…

Sarah May: even if visitors don't choose to join the average visitor is actually worth500 to that room in terms of referrals and things that happen even if they don't join. So we welcome visitors and especially in my chapter group we put a lot of emphasis on the visitor experience. So we contact them beforehand, we contact them afterwards. we have a visitor host team.

Nick Poninski: Yeah, I remember having Love it.

Sarah May: So we'll allocate a or host to the visitor. We'll look after them. We'll make sure we introduce them to the right people that they're sat next to strategic partners in the room. So I can't speak for other chapters, but we spend a lot of time looking after our visitor experience in the hope that people will love it and want to join. And being nice clicky, it's because you're inside the clique and it's a lockout. I think that's the benefit. Yes, I'm ready.

Nick Poninski: Fair enough. handled, Sarah. I've got another one for you. Are you ready?

Nick Poninski: Others say that the referrals you get in BNI are often low value or not the right fit and people are just doing it to tick a box.

00:30:00

Sarah May: A couple of things.

Nick Poninski: What would you say to that?

Sarah May: So, first of all, we have our education slots and we deliberately will train people on what's a good referral. because we track everything on the app and the app gives you the opportunity to say whether you got the business whether it wasn't the right fit and so you can actually say something's not the right fit and we encourage people to go back and give feedback about why that wasn't the right fit. and actually sometimes when members stand up and do their 60 seconds sometimes they tell people what isn't a good referral. So for example classic one for me people refer employees. I can't act for employees. I'm not FCA registered.

Sarah May: consultants generally don't work for employees, but you still get the odd person who thinks that they do. So, I'll educate people and say, "Thanks for that, but I can't work for employees, but here's the Acast helpline." the other thing I would say about that is, so now I'm president, we have a referral round where we go around and talk about what our positive contribution is and we talk about the referrals. it's really easy for people to stand up and go, "My positive contribution is one referral." And sit back down again, what I do is I always say to people, can you tell us about your favorite one? So, I get people to explain to other people what the referrals are because then any visitors in the room especially can see the type of business that's being passed and what kind of referral relationships are going on and it actually holds people a bit accountable because you're there going, what was it then? What did you do?" And the other person in the room, they're not going to go, "That's a lie. You didn't refer to me." they're going to go and you hear people go, " yeah, yeah, I need to follow up with that. yeah. Thank you.

Sarah May: I got the business. so I do that as part of when I lead the meeting. I'll ask people to tell and al because it's good to hear and yeah, it does keep people on their toes. But yeah, I think if people give dud referrals, you'll know about it because we have these trap to traffic lights, which again might put people off, but I love the traffic lights mainly because I'm always at the top.

Sarah May: But the traffic lights is not a measure of how good a member you are. It's a measure of how much you're giving because if you remember givers gain, So if the more you're giving, so the more oneto ones you're having, the more referrals you're giving, the more visitors you're bringing, the more testimonials you're giving, which is what's measured how often you turn up, all of your giving, if you're giving enough, you should be getting enough.

Nick Poninski: Mhm. Yes.

Sarah May: And so actually, if somebody's giving dud referrals, they're not going to be very high on that list. and then what happens is the committee mentors anyone who's struggling anyone who's not doing well or…

Nick Poninski: Stop it.

Sarah May: struggles to give referrals someone we have an engagement specialist in the committee and they will mentor anyone struggling so we have that support I always say we won't leave any member behind it's in our collective best interest to make sure everyone works and if they don't people won't renew…

Sarah May: but we're measured on our attention so we want to be the best in the region So, we're quite competitive. We call ourselves the great and mighty Pavidian. So, we've got to live up to that name. It's not a cult.

Nick Poninski: Fair enough.

Sarah May: It's not a cult. I promise.

Nick Poninski: I like that. At least you're aware of what people So I guess last difficult question for you. Some people say that BNI is too rigid and…

Nick Poninski: that have too many responsibilities off the back of it. What would you say to that?

Sarah May: Not going to lie,…

Sarah May: there are some chapters out there who are a bit dry and rigid. You'll go to some and you're like, "This is tough this time in the morning." what I would say to people is try out a few chapters because every chapter's different. So, I'm really lucky. I go to Brighton Pavilion. we have a great group, great people. I would say Jim, who was the president before me, who's nice now vice president, is, …

Nick Poninski: Is that right? Yes.

Sarah May: it was really tough stepping into his shoes because he was cracking. but we have music on when people arrive, we have a bit of fun. maybe we might have some Katy Perry, but we have music on, we We add in a break that we don't have to because we like the networking. there's always laughter. There's always fun. and we still have to stick to the BNI agenda because right it's that brand you've got to stick to it and BNI works you've got to stick to that agenda for a reason but we make sure that we have fun there's always laughs and I think it's about the members make it and so that again is why membership is a privilege we've got to make sure that the people we're getting in are the right people that will drive the chapter forward and you do have responsib

Sarah May: ibility, but guess what? We run a business, And just if you didn't go to BNI, I'm assuming most savvy business owners would have some kind of business development meeting once a week, once a month, right? You do that. So, This is part of your business development meeting. So, of course, it's going to be structured and if you want to call it strict because if you don't do it, your business isn't going to be developed. If outside of BNI, you probably know the businesses that don't work on their business, who don't spend time on strategy or pipeline or where they're getting their leads from, how well their business doing. So, it's part of your business development as part of your business. So, I appreciate the structure and…

00:35:00

Sarah May: the structure and the accountability that goes with that. but what I would say is in order for people to want to get up early and come into Brighton to spend two hours in the morning, it has to be fun, because if it isn't, people wouldn't do it. So, I don't think everyone else does that.

Nick Poninski: Yeah, especially when you're waking up at 4:00 a.m.

Sarah May: I do that though.

Nick Poninski: So, I've got three last questions.

Sarah May: Okay.

Nick Poninski: One is quite simp they're all quite simple now. I've asked you the difficult ones.

Sarah May: I passed.

Nick Poninski: So, Yeah,…

Sarah May: I passed him.

Nick Poninski: you've passed the test. Now you can relax a little bit.

Sarah May: I think there are probably people out there…

Nick Poninski: Would you say Sarah that BNI can be your marketing?

Nick Poninski: Can you just turn off all other elements of business development or is it part of a wider strategy?

Sarah May: who only do BNI and don't do anything else. I think it very much depends on the business. So, for example, you could be an electrician in BNI and get all of your leads from all the other trades in the rooms and not have to do much else. So, I'm pretty sure it will work.  What I would say is BNI helps elevate your brand and your credibility and your visibility. however, it's still really important to show up everywhere because what will happen is, so for example, Alex the marketing guy will refer me to somebody and he'll recommend that they speak to me. I'll then email them or call them and say, "Let's arrange a chat." In the meantime, they're stalking me. They've gone on my website. They've gone on my LinkedIn.

Sarah May: they signed up for my newsletter. They've looked at what I'm looking at. And if there's no website, if there's no presence, if they can't because I like to think I'm different to other consultants, and so therefore, if people are going to get the feel of me, right, from what they see on my LinkedIn, for example. I get comments all the time about my branding on my website. and so therefore, people are going to form an opinion about me before they met me. So, yes, it's warmed up by somebody giving me a warm introduction and going, "You've got to speak to Sarah.

Nick Poninski: Yeah.  The chair.

Sarah May: She's brilliant. She'll look after you." But then they're still going to look at other things. And it might be that I have a chat with them, but they're not ready yet now. So, therefore, they're going to sign up to my newsletter, for example. and so there or I run webinars, so they might come along to my webinar. And so, all of those other touch points, it's building that and trust. So, I think it very much depends.  But as an HR consultant and this being a podcast to other consultants, you absolutely still need to do other things. because people will stalk I do that. I stalked you, Nick, so yeah, of course, to be like, is this the kind of person I want to talk to? But over time, therefore, so then the reason we're here today is because we comment and on each other's LinkedIn. Yeah.

Sarah May: We've built that relationship over LinkedIn to that I can trust there for you to go she's savvy enough to what I want her to come on my podcast for me to go yeah he's not just some other person showing up from a comment to be able to get to where we are. So that's the same for business development. So absolutely I think it's part of a wider thing but what I would say is you can't just turn up and be a 90-minute member. You've absolutely with BNI, there's a strategy to it and you've got to work it for you and make it work. And that is tough to get into that mindset,…

Sarah May: but it absolutely needs to be part of something bigger. But if you commit to BNI, you can probably afford to drop some of it's the other networking I'd recommend that you drop.

Nick Poninski: Yeah, fair enough.

Nick Poninski: I think that's a fair statement as well. I would say that in general about marketing. Once you find something that is generating leads, that is generating sales,…

Nick Poninski: throw your weight behind it. So, like you say, try out a few things. There's nothing wrong with iteration, but when you find something that works, that is a tap which you have turned on and effectively you're putting $1 into that cash machine and you're getting $5 out. Start throwing all the dollars at it because that's it.

Sarah May: Yes. Yeah.

Sarah May: Yeah. Absolutely. and…

Nick Poninski: So if that's BNI,…

Sarah May: and yeah,…

Nick Poninski: then go nuts.

Sarah May: and with BNI as well, I think it's a long game as well. sometimes there's weeks when I don't have referrals, but then I'll have several at once or, I'll get one and it's a brilliant one and…

Nick Poninski: Yeah.

Sarah May: it's big. and the whole idea though is you turn up every week because you're building those relationships and you're there for other people as well. You've got to remember you're there for other people. You've got to give. So, I think that it's a mindset shift for sure because most people are like, "Where do I find clients? I need to go and find clients. Where are they?" whereas actually this is a bit bigger picture and I like bigger picture thinking. So therefore and also the other thing to say is it's far easier if you think about it. Most people consultants particularly hate ringing someone up cold calling going hi do you want my HR services? Whereas imagine instead somebody else was doing that for you. It's easier right?

00:40:00

Sarah May: It's easier for me to even contact somebody that I half know that's an acquaintance going, do you know what? There's a website guy in my chapter. He mentions you every single week. He ask he wants to speak to you because I know Would you mind if I made an introduction?" I've done that before. It's easier for me to do that than him to do it because when we're advocating for ourselves, it's a lot harder. So, if you've got a middleman doing it who even if there's a loose acquaintance of it. So, often I don't know them personally, but I'm connected with them on LinkedIn, right?

Sarah May: So I'll then message them going this might sound a bit weird but there's someone I know…

Sarah May: who keeps asking to speak to you would you like that this is what they can give to you would you like an introduction so yeah you've got to change your mindset for sure mindset shift there's no also So it depends on the value as well…

Nick Poninski: Yeah, fair enough.

Nick Poninski: I like that. And I like the honesty as well when you just shared there that there can be weeks where you will not get a referral. So it's not as I said at the start, BNI isn't some magic solution. So Jesus.

Sarah May: because for example there's one guy not in a different chapter who sells garage doors for 40 grand. So he says he just needs one chapter I don't know what kind of garage door but he rolled a doors anyway and he said for 40 grand he got one referral a year that came off and it was 40 grand so that's well worth it.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah May: Yeah he stays all year for that.

Nick Poninski: 100%. if his joining fee was two grand or whatever it was, less than grand and a half, then easy peasy.

Sarah May: 

Sarah May: Yeah absolutely. Yeah, I think it's that you need to try it out.

Nick Poninski: Fair so I got last two questions. Nice and simple. What is one thing you wish more consultants understood about BNI before they made a decision about whether or not to join?

Sarah May: So, I had a misconception about BNI myself because I was told that by Other HR people…

Nick Poninski: Amazing. Yeah.

Sarah May: who said, don't go to BNI. You won't like it." And I therefore had come up with this whole conclusion that I didn't like BNI how do I know I didn't like BNI because I'd never been. And so what I would say is go along and go along maybe to a couple. And some chapters are still hybrid and some are online. That's not as good mainly because BNI is definitely the face to face and the networking. but some are and…

Sarah May: that might suit other people. But I definitely think the biggest misconception is people decide they don't like it because they've heard from someone else they won't like it.  And yes, it's not for everybody, but it absolutely can change your life like mine.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. …

Nick Poninski: I know someone else here in the community. I want to say Danny Shaw. yeah, He's credited BNI with he shared a figure the other day. I don't want to share it out. I mean, he put it on Facebook,…

Nick Poninski: so I guess he doesn't mind, but whatever. It was a lot.

Sarah May: Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah May: And also, can I just say that as well that I don't think I've said One of my best referers is another HR consultant who's in another chapter because we have different niches. Have I said that already?

Nick Poninski: You can say her name.

Sarah May: Amy, okay, she'll be very upset…

Nick Poninski: Hi, Amy.

Sarah May: if I've gone the whole way through and not credited her. But she's got a different niche to me. So, she's very much about strategy. She hates ER and vice versa. So we refer work to each other and we even share a client and we have an amazing collaboration and so that's the other thing to open your minds to other consultants are not your competition.

Sarah May: You can have great collaborations with them and actually outside of that there's other consultants in the city that I refer to from time to time as well because I know that they do different things to me or perhaps I'm at capacity. so that's where having your niche is important as well because then you're well known for something and then it's clear who you then give the work that you don't want to somebody else. And that works beautifully for me and Amy. Okay.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. I think…

Nick Poninski: what you and Amy do well as well from my outside perspective is when you're on you've got your brand that Mayday it's really catching and it very seeps into your brain I can't tell you anyone any other HR consultants brought so I know that one and then Amy's very good on the videos she does her videos so that they're both very good at getting awareness that you two are doing really well at

Sarah May: Yes, she is. Absolutely. Yeah.

Sarah May: And she will say to you those videos that's her top of funnel stuff because it's engagement.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah May: It's engagement that then leads people to then follow her and sign up to a webinar or something. So yeah, that's the other thing I'd probably say to HR consultants. A lot of them are scared of video. and that's honestly one of the best ways to engage with your audience. Just to get over You just got to get over it.

Nick Poninski: Yes. Yeah.

Sarah May: For sure.

00:45:00

Nick Poninski: You've got to build a pipeline into your business. You Got to get a funnel,…

Sarah May: Yes. Spoken a true marketeteer. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: something. you can get people's attention, but how do you on board them as a lead? How do you nurture them? Good news is I've got something coming out for that. watch this space. but yeah, I was about to ask you a question, but I think you've more or less answered it. So, let me ask it anyway because I think we've just covered it.

Nick Poninski: If someone's on the fence about joining BNI, what's a good first step to explore if BNI might be right for them?

Sarah May: I'd say visit a chapter…

Sarah May: but also two other things I would say I've chatted to a few HR consultants who have…

Nick Poninski: I referred one to you yesterday,…

Sarah May: 

Sarah May: then gone on to join was …

Nick Poninski: I think, or the day before. roof. She posted about BNI and I tagged her said Sarah's the

Sarah May: yes, I saw that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm always really happy to chat to people. So, I think it's about chatting to people. I'd say Visit more than one just in case because it could just be the people in the room. And the other thing I would say is before I joined, I had about three one-to- ons with existing members because I wanted to know what their experience was and that was really helpful. And one of them,…

Nick Poninski: Yes. Manage your expectations. Yeah.

Sarah May: 

Sarah May: Alex, I'm going to credit Alex because He's the one that invited me in the first place, Alex Ryan. And he showed me the chapter traffic lights and things. So he was like, "Listen, this is what you're signing up to. These are the rules." And that was really helpful because then I went in with my eyes open. So And you'll know that that's really important. So therefore I don't like rules I don't agree with. So it was really important for me to know what the rules were that I was signing up to. And so he did that with me. And then I had a couple of other oneto ones with a couple of other people just to hear how it had worked for them.

Sarah May: One of them was the bookkeeper for example and how it would work for her. So I think that's the other thing to do is visit chat to someone like me about is it right for you but also have coffees or…

Sarah May: oneto ones with those existing members because ultimately they're going to become your peer group. So you have to like them and they have to like you.

Nick Poninski: Perfect. Love it.

Nick Poninski: And if somebody wants to reach out to you, Sarah Mayday how does someone reach out to you?

Sarah May: So the best way is that you're obviously welcome, you've credited my branding a few times, you're welcome to go on my website…

Sarah May: which is madehr.com or drop me an email which is sarah madedayhr.com or find me on LinkedIn and follow me that way. but don't send me a LinkedIn message because it'll get Email me instead because I'm not very good at managing my LinkedIn inbox. I will obviously…

Nick Poninski: Fair enough.

Sarah May: but I will forget. So, email is always best, but yeah,…

Nick Poninski: It's good to know.

Sarah May: and always happy to spread the love about being nice.

Nick Poninski: I'll be honest with you.

Sarah May: I'm always happy to have a chat with anybody who's curious.

Nick Poninski: I'm going to say this right here. BNI should be paying you…

Sarah May: Wow, I don't keep telling them this.

Nick Poninski: because you are clearly an advocate. And if they get even two, three, four people then signed up off the back of this.

Nick Poninski: I'm sure Nice.

Sarah May: And…

Sarah May: also there's plenty of chapters in the UK where there isn't an HR consultant. and the last thing to say is where there isn't an HR consultant you can go and visit and sub for so that's how there was a time when a lot of my business was coming out of other rooms. So I would go and visit other chapters in Eastborne and I would get business out of that room as well. So if there's currently a vac if it's not locked out you can go and visit other chapters. so that's often a good way to spread things out a bit.

Sarah May: You can Yeah,…

Nick Poninski: more awareness about…

Nick Poninski: what you're doing. So, you'll pay to join your one chapter and…

Sarah May: absolutely. Absolutely.

Nick Poninski: but you get access to all the other chapters.

Sarah May: Absolutely. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: Fair enough. thank you for coming along today, Sarah. I don't have any more questions, so I think you've covered everything.

Sarah May: 

Sarah May: I think I've covered everything. hopefully Yeah,…

Nick Poninski: I might go and join up to BNI. Yeah.

Sarah May: Absolutely. But also, hopefully you've seen it. It's definitely not a cult, but also it's very good for business. my business would not be where it is today if it wasn't. I would still be really struggling. it's really hard, especially when you're starting a business,…

Nick Poninski: do you want to give any of them a shell?  sound.

Sarah May: an HR consultancy. It's really hard to find clients, We all know that.  and even you would admit Nick that any marketing efforts take a while right top of funnel how long it takes a while and so BNI sort of accelerates that an awful lot for you and just a shout out because hopefully some of them will listen but I'm really grateful to everyone in my chapter I love hardcore BNI me too long I'll shout out Jim Jim

Sarah May: Jim this is a bit cringe now if people listen to it they'll just but Jim Kunliff aka print lord he's self-styled print lord he's a printer and…

00:50:00

Nick Poninski: I got that.

Sarah May: yeah but he was a really big influence for me because he was president before me so really tough shoes to step into but like I said he runs a big business breakfast club on in Bright third Friday of every month in Brighton and he's brilliant and I think he's the epitome of what BNI is and he's been there an awfully long time. So, definitely him, but they're all brilliant all of them. But, Jim is definitely a good role model for sure.

Nick Poninski: Excellent. I'm sure Jim appreciates hearing that.

Sarah May: Yeah,…

Nick Poninski: Sarah, I've got nothing else for you, so I'm just going to say this.

Sarah May: thank you.

Nick Poninski: Thank you for coming along today and sharing your expertise, it's very appreciated.

Sarah May: Thank You're very welcome.

Nick Poninski: And hopefully for those of you listening along, that has been an interesting and educational conversation.

Nick Poninski: And in the meantime, as ever, get marketing because without marketing, there's no sales and without sales, there's no business. So get marked. Well done. That was good. Yeah.

Meeting ended after 00:51:24 👋

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