Behind the Scenes: Unfiltered Q&A with HR Consultants Like You

Earlier this month, I decided to hold a free live Q&A for HR Consultants to get answers to any questions they felt like asking. 

I created the event and publicised it widely, but only two amazing HR Consultants, Susan and Marie, showed up! 

Not to worry – their questions were gold.

In this candid conversation, we dive deep into the challenges of scaling an HR consultancy and share actionable strategies to overcome them.

We discussed:

• How to build a £70K+ HR Consultancy and what's really stopping you from getting there.
• Why the common "spray and pray" approach to client acquisition falls short, and the importance of establishing a system or process for consistent leads.
• Whether SMEs are actually a viable niche you can target and get leads from, and the simple 5 questions to answer to identify your ideal target market.
• How to figure out how many leads you actually need for your HR consultancy to hit your income goals.
• What a lead magnet is, and why they're essential for HR Consultants to build trust and nurture prospects.
• Practical strategies for building trust with potential clients and converting skepticism into sales.
• Overcoming sales aversion and exploring alternative, less direct lead generation methods beyond cold calling.
• The critical role of referrals, customer success stories, and testimonials in growing your business, and how to effectively ask for them.
• Plus, insights into navigating those sometimes tricky initial client calls and setting clear expectations.

So if you're an HR Consultant looking to secure consistent clients, scale your business, and move beyond guesswork in your marketing, this episode is packed with actionable insights you won't want to miss! 

Tune in now to transform your client acquisition strategy.

Want My Help to Build Your £70K+ HR Consultancy?

1️⃣ Grab a copy of my book – The Complete Guide to Building a £70K HR Consultancy – and discover how to get every lead and client you need.

2️⃣ Apply to Join The Fastlane Formula – so we can work together 1-to-1 to get you earning £70K+ faster (and easier) than going it alone.

Transcript

FREE LIVE Q&A for HR Consultants - 2025/05/02 09:58 BST – Transcript

Attendees

Marie , Nick Poninski, Susan 

Transcript

Nick Poninski: Okay So we are recording. Susan Marie, thank you for joining me. I'm not going to share your surnames because this might be inappropriate. Who knows? Let's find out. Susan Marie, which of you wants to go first to pick my brains or one second though? We've just shared, haven't we? Neither of you have any questions right now.

Susan : We're picking your brains by you telling us…

Susan : what you want to tell us.

Nick Poninski: That put the pressure on me cuz I hadn't thought about that for the today's session. My session was I'll turn up and just let my brains be pecked at. But So let me say I guess in that case what is stopping either of you? I don't know where you are. I don't know anything about Don't know your world. Don't know your business.

Nick Poninski: But let me start off with what's stopping you earning 70K or…

Susan : getting clients.

Nick Poninski: more with your consultancy.

Nick Poninski: What's stopping you earning 150? whatever your goal is, what is the blocker? Okay. Boom. Yeah. and Marie.

Marie : Yeah, exactly the same as Susan,…

Marie : getting clients. I think for me when I've spoken to people about kind of their approach to getting clients, people seem to be in two distinct camps.  One being LinkedIn, that's your source. You need to be on it every day. Be consistent. Be visible. This is where people are going to find you. This is your sales lead. And the other said All of my work, 100% of it comes from referrals of people I used to work with, my existing network."

Marie : So, I guess I'm just kind of lost in terms of where do I focus my time?

Nick Poninski: Mhm. …

Marie : Do I be treating my existing network as my salesfunnel potential clients or do I invest all of my time on being visible on LinkedIn to complete strangers?

Nick Poninski: it's the eternal question which plagues us as self-employed people. okay so getting clients let's start at the beginning. Susan before obviously we clicked record you were sharing that you were intending to go formemes and…

Nick Poninski: obviously you consumed certain elements of my content and…

Susan : Yeah. …

Nick Poninski: heard thatmemes is something I rail against.

Nick Poninski: So yeah, if I was to say to you, get 100 leads by next week. If you were to say, I'm going to go formemes, that would be difficult, right? Because how do you find anme?

Susan : I have been finding…

Nick Poninski: They exist.

Susan : which is why when I was listening to your content, I was like, I've managed it. So, am I a unicorn?  But how I've managed it is probably more accident than tried and tested methods. So I was on LinkedIn as a paid employee anyway. I had quite a big network. so I am that person that is posting all about me. I was in the garden. Nick, you liked it. my post the other day, I was in the garden doing something, let's take a picture. Let's show me as me. and I'm doing also posts around what problems I'm here to solve for you. But ultimately on that platform, there'll be probably minimal startup and scale up which is when I saymemes it's scaleups that I'm targeting.

Susan : So, I suppose I am funneling down to a degree. but I'm also using my networks and so I've got people in the local area who work in business and they're speaking to people and they are small business owners. So that's kind of generating activity. and then the one that's hopefully going to convert into a client on Tuesday.

Susan : finishing a proposal today which I'm hoping to get some nuggets of advice from you today in terms of putting that together. I know it's a marketing Q&A but I thought I might just see if I can get something else out of it. so that was through attending a new business venture course funded by the government and the other attendees on that were startup organizations and…

Nick Poninski: Yeah. Yeah.

Susan : one of those wants to use me for their startup business. so I suppose it might just be look as opposed to…

Nick Poninski: Nice. Okay,…

Susan : what you're going to give us in terms of, a better way of niching. but its activity is working for me at the moment.

00:05:00

Nick Poninski: That's great to hear.

Nick Poninski: I think the big problem, let's go back to the beginning…

Nick Poninski: where you shared with me what's stopping you getting 70K, 100K, whatever. You both said clients. And what I'm hearing from what you've both shared with me there isn't a system or a process to get clients. what you've both just said effectively is that Yeah.

Susan : It's spraying and…

Susan : praying is how I describe it. It's LinkedIn. It's networking. It's this. And I think your content that I've seen is it's taking a lot of time.

Marie : Oops.

Susan : I'm spending my time marketing, selling, which is not My strong point obviously is the profession I've been in for 20 years.

Nick Poninski: Is it fair for me to say that it's hope there's no Yeah.

Susan : 

Susan : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I mean once I get in front of people I'm quite hopefully convincing that they need to buy from me…

Nick Poninski: Okay. That's certainly…

Susan : but I think it is more by look than judgment that these leads have developed

Nick Poninski: what it sounds like. again, I only know minimal of what you're sharing with me, And obviously you work in there's always more underneath the surface, but it's a bit difficult to get to that in this brief conversation, but what I'm hearing is effectively it's look like you went along to the government run course.

Susan : Yeah. Yes, absolutely.

Nick Poninski: There was I need perfect timing. whereas they might have said, we're not interested right now.

Nick Poninski: So, the reason I rail so much againstmemes is because if I said to you, you find a hundredmemes by the next week, that would be kind of overwhelming. you'd have a vague idea, you've just shared with me at startups and scaleups. But if I said to you, we'll find a startup or a scaleup, that might be a little bit tricky, which is why I encourage consultants to go against the grain. because if everyone's sayingmemes and I said to you find 100memes 100 scaleups whatever there's a lack of specificity about that for me I work with consultants nice and…

Susan : Yeah. Heat.

Nick Poninski: simple every morning I wake up I know that I'm going on LinkedIn and I'm going to connect with consultants I'm going to send some messages I'm going to create some content and my book is about consultants everything I do is for consultants

Nick Poninski: It makes things so much easier. It removes all the questions. So that's why I encourage consultants to do the exact same thing.

Nick Poninski: It makes everything so much easier. If you said to me, Nick, I want to work with I don't know, fintech, less than 100 employees. I'll be great, we can find those. No problem. There'll be, I don't know, hundred them, a thousand of them, whatever it is, there'll be enough. how many clients do you both need? Let's say for example, on a retainer, how many would you either of you need on a whatever package you've got created? Okay.

Susan : That's the thing how much you charge for a retainer because that's what needs to go in my proposal this afternoon.

Nick Poninski: Yeah.

Susan : But yeah, I get your question. I'm not going to take it down that route. But yeah, you can work out, can't you? If you've got a certain number of people that you targeting and you need a certain amount as a retainer, then you know how many you need to get converted.

Nick Poninski: I mean then it starts to extrapolate, If you know that you need 10 clients on retainer each paying I don't know two grand a month or whatever or maybe you need 20 clients I don't know whatever it is that you've decided that you are going to convert one in every 100 conversations you need to have 10,000 conversations whatever it is it gives you the maths behind it so that's why I always advocate for having some sort of target audience

Nick Poninski: audience in mind, some sort of niche, it makes things a lot simpler. Then in terms of lead genen, again, makes things a hell of a lot easier. who to connect with on LinkedIn. You could even start running adverts if you wanted to, because people go on Google or Bing to find answers to the problems that they are experiencing, right?  So at the top of Google there is two or three adverts and a bad advert would be something along the lines of I am a HR consultant. I can solve your problem. something more interesting would be better.

00:10:00

Nick Poninski: I always say to have some sort of downloadable, a HR health check or,…

Nick Poninski: 10 ways, 10 mistakes you're making that kill your recruitment or, that cost you thousands in employee tribunal, something intriguing, and I'm just spitballing here. Please don't take those as headlines.

Susan : Right down and…

Susan : then Yeah.

Nick Poninski: But that kind of thing, what is the big problem that they have? Use chat GPT and say, "Listen, I need something intriguing.

Susan : Yeah.

Nick Poninski: I need something that solves their problem for them." And you can put that on an advert. Then they click onto it. Somebody join your joins your world, there is a high level of skepticism. They don't know who you are. And trust is down here at the bottom.

Nick Poninski: So when they join your mailing list, there's a hell of a lot of work to do to get them to convert into a client. So I always say if somebody joins your mailing list, you can then send them a series of emails over a course of a day, perhaps even to video content that solve their problems. And eventually trust gets up to the top and skepticism is at the bottom. And they may or, for example, if you had a hundred people who downloaded that checklist, I don't know, two or three might buy from you. The other 97 might not necessarily buy from you just yet,…

Susan : Where?

Nick Poninski: but they will eventually if you keep sending them content that they can trust you. it's funny, Maria, at the start of the call, you shared with me that you're off to the football. I sent out an email this morning talking about Leicester City.

Nick Poninski: Cuz I was saying that they achieved the impossible and there's nothing stopping consultants achieve the impossible because all you need is the right plan and put it in it into action and consistently turn up repeatedly and if I was to say to you what is the best way of getting clients have a mailing list have a funnel h have something that brings people into your world in a structured manner and…

Nick Poninski: solves their problems for them. and that really helps is if you have a target audience in mind, a niche, because then you understand what problems they've got.

Susan : So yeah,…

Susan : I mean it all obviously seems sensible and you've clearly done this before and so as you're saying that I'm now thinking the industries that I have worked in more recently and that I'd loved working in.

Susan : And when I was looking for a permanent role, I wanted to look for a role in could be my niche which is healthare and So that's very broad organizations with purpose but health care isn't and there's a lot of startup and…

Nick Poninski: No. Yeah,…

Susan : scale up healthcare organizations which I was looking at as a permanent employee. I could convert them into my target audience for being a consultant, couldn't I?

Nick Poninski: there's absolutely no reason why you couldn't. I mean, I would say do some research, mate. …

Susan : Of course.

Nick Poninski: mate, I would say do some research and…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'm not and…

Nick Poninski: make sure that they actually exist. There's five questions that you want to answer before deciding on a target market. Can you find them? Are they ready and willing to hire consultants?

Susan : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: Will they pay the fees that you want to charge? can you help them? Do you want to help them? but the big one is can you find them?

Nick Poninski: So yeah, there's no reason why you couldn't do healthcare companies. Absolutely. Then you can turn your world into a hub for these people so that when they get to your website, when they see your LinkedIn, when they see your content, they know they're in the right world to get answers to their problems.

Nick Poninski: And then that high level of skepticism and trust kind of a bit start off. it's moved a bit further along.

Susan : Yes. And…

Susan : then the other thing is the mailing list. So, I set up my website. I've been working on LinkedIn. and I've got the contact tools and I've got a chatbot, but I haven't got a mailing list. And somebody said to me the other day, you should do that.  And I'm like, I haven't got the creativity necessarily to and I need to get into the consistency piece. Like you say, sending out content that's quite time consuming, isn't it?

Susan : I know it's what will make the business come in,…

Susan : but it's time consuming and making sure that content is hitting the spot and relevant.

Nick Poninski: Yes. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. 100%. again, in terms of the relevance and hitting the spot comes a hell of a lot easier when you have a target audience and a niche in mind…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: because I can turn anything into a lesson for HR consultants cuz I know that I'm speaking to consultants. What the hell have Leicester City got to do with consultants? Nothing. But I've somehow made an analogy about it,…

00:15:00

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: and if I was to start talking about consultancies in general, then it kind of loses that specificity. those neurons in your brain don't fire as much.

Nick Poninski: So in terms of a mailing list, so just as a sneak peek for you both, I've got a new offer launching, the sneak peek will be on next Friday for my mailing list and then, the big launch starts on Monday. and it's to get consultants five leads a week, guaranteed or their money back. And what we do is we build a funnel into your business.

Nick Poninski: So one of those elements is email marketing. So that might be of interest to you, but I'm not pitching right now. So let's go back to what your problem is. You're saying that you don't know what is it? Are you struggling with the tech setup or the creating of the content or both?

Susan : The reason I haven't looked at the tech setup is…

Susan : because I didn't think I was confident and ready to create the content because I was spending time doing the other stuff that I've talked about. and creating content for LinkedIn and I'm using chat GBT and so it's making my life a hell of a lot easier than it would have been had that not existed and we not got the technology that we've got and so I'm a Clifton strengths coach. and I've done a series of what my top five strengths are on LinkedIn and that's kind of making people know a bit about me but also sharing about LinkedIn strengths. so I've been concentrating on that content. What I feel like I'm probably would benefit doing is get the mailing list set up on my website and…

Susan : start focusing my content creation for that as opposed to LinkedIn.

Nick Poninski: Okay. …

Nick Poninski: so here's a cheat code for you. if you're on my mailing list, I think you should I doesn't matter.

Susan : I'm pro I might not be…

Susan : but at the moment but yeah Yeah.

Nick Poninski: Not to worry. If you're on my mailing list, if you don't know how to write the content, if you don't want to write the content, as you say, chat GPT, copy my email, throw it into chat GPT and…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: change the lesson for my audience. They struggle with XY Z. This is always the key question at the end of it. What do you need to know from me? Because without that question, Chat GPT will do whatever the hell it thinks it should do.

Nick Poninski: But you ask that question and chat GP2 will tell you exactly what it's looking for. So then it can create the email for Easy peasy.

Susan : Okay. Yay.

Susan : Thank you.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. Do it in two three four minutes. I don't know.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: And yeah, there's nothing stopping you. Then sharing that amazing content that brings them into your world.

Nick Poninski: But I think going back to the beginning, Legen is something that we're talking about building trust with people. Let's go back to the beginning of Legion. how do you get them? yeah. Is that something of curiosity for you as well, Marie? Right.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Marie : Yes. Yeah.

Marie : It sounds like I'm in a very similar position to Susan.

Nick Poninski: Okay. yeah.

Nick Poninski: So lead genen is basically speaking to the people who are in your target audience and who have problems. You understand their world, you have their problems and you talk to them about their problems. So there are many ways that you can do lead genen. and most people talk about LinkedIn, they talk about networking. it's a difficult one because those are the really popular ones, but they're not always the most effective. They legion can depend on you and your skill set. If you're quite comfortable, you can do cold calling, I've got a grimace there, so that's not fair enough.

Susan : Yeah, left that years ago. Not going back to it.

Nick Poninski: Do you know I used to do link cold calling as my primary method of lead genen. I loved it.

Nick Poninski: Do you know how friendly people are? Especially R consultants.

Susan : 

Susan : I think that's possibly different. So, I used to be a recruitment consultant when I first started in my career and I was very good at getting repeat business from building the relationships and keep coming back to us. But we were targeted on cold calling and that's why I left recruitment…

Nick Poninski: Yeah.

Susan : because I did not want to be calling people who didn't want to use us just because I got tick a box.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. Yeah.

Susan : says a lot about me as an individual,…

Nick Poninski: Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan : but might be different now because I'm doing it for myself, but it's still got that, trigger in my head.

Nick Poninski: No, I get that. I would not encourage you to do lead genen that doesn't align with who you are.

00:20:00

Susan : Yeah. It'll be disingenuous when I'm making the call,…

Nick Poninski: There's no point traumatizing yourself.

Susan : won't it? Yeah.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. I mean, in my book, there's a script and it starts off with, "Listen, this is obviously a cold call.

Nick Poninski: Do you want to tell me to get lost and hang up or give me one simple question and then decide? and that kind of disarms people. They're like, "Okay, he's been honest." It is a cold call. I give him a question. Why not? And the amount of fun conversations I've had with people. but that's not something you want to do. Absolutely fine. In which case, I would say, what is it that you want to do? What would method of lead genen would you want to do?

Nick Poninski: Send out letters in the post? Would you want to send out some lumpy mail? Would you just want to send direct messages on LinkedIn?

Nick Poninski: Follow up with an email? Do you want to send out videos to people? There's all sorts of method you could use to start these conversations.

Susan : don't want to do it for me and…

Susan : I want somebody to just say, "Hey, I want you to work for me. You'll work with me." I don't want to have to do any of it.

Nick Poninski: Okay.

Nick Poninski: And Marie

Marie : Every single option made me cringe a little. And I think that probably my biggest hurdle so far is going from that house role to suddenly being responsible for sales,…

Susan : I'm glad I'm not alone,…

Nick Poninski: Okay. Yeah.

Susan : That's not what we're made to do. You've obviously got a skill within being an HR person that likes that side of things. It's not Yeah.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. …

Marie : marketing as well as accounting, everything else and prioritizing that and doing  The things that are not naturally in my skill set.

Nick Poninski: if you want to pay the problem away, That's the simple question to that. I'm running adverts on Facebook right now. It's costing me about two pounds a lead. which is not expensive.

Nick Poninski: So, in order when I say two pounds a lead, m running somebody clicks on the advert, they share the name and their email address with Facebook. I get that information. Whether or not they then purchase a copy of my book, doesn't matter. I've still got their name and their email address. They join my mailing list. So, two pounds a lead, quick, efficient, easy. I'm not cold calling anymore. And I am turning up and…

Nick Poninski: solving people's problems because they want a solution and I'm offering that in the vert. The only difficulty is and I will be honest with you if what you've created doesn't convert then you're wasting your money. Yeah. You're burning your money. So yeah.

Susan : Just go there.

Nick Poninski: So that's the easy way around lead genen.

Nick Poninski: You say you're ether investing when it comes to lead gen you're ether investing your time your effort or your money I would say I mean playing into people's ego really helps.

Marie : Nick, what's your …

Susan : You

Marie : sorry, Susan. Nick, what's your view on offering referral incentives?

Nick Poninski: So, if you get a good client, you can finish the projects with them and you can say, it's gone really well, how did the service go? one thing I like to do is I call it the Brad Pitt.

Nick Poninski: Every client I get, I try and give them the best experience possible that I would give to Brad Pitt so that they feel like they've had a great relationship with me, So that the referral happens automatically. You can't guarantee that though. So I like your question because you're saying how do you engender that? so one thing is that you can send them a coupon like a gold token or something and you can say give this to the next person who tells you that they've got problems and the next time someone's talking like hey I've got that little coupon and it's like a physical reminder. Does it work but 100% of the time?

Susan : I don't mind that.

Nick Poninski: Not 100% of the time but it encourages a referral without you losing anything if that makes sense.

Nick Poninski: You could also ask people who they can get you in touch with. just to circle back, when you finish the project with somebody,…

Marie : Still a bit more direct than anything I've ever done.

Nick Poninski: who can you put me in touch with who might need my help? What do you think about that?

00:25:00

Susan : and that's kind of why I want this first client and you know why I'm prepared to discount my rates in my head at least to get the first client because if I get that first client then I don't have a problem saying right in the circles that you now move in would you recommend me and if you would please do and can you give me a testimonial for my website so that I don't mind doing because  To me, that's warm calling. It's not cold calling. it's kind of like they've seen me. They've bought from me. They know that I deliver because I will deliver and they know that it's going to be good quality and all that kind of good stuff. And I've built that trust with that individual. And that's how I don't think of that as selling as such. I think I just don't think of it as selling.

Susan : Think of it more as like you say,…

Susan : referrals, kind of like growing the network of people that can say, "Hey, I know somebody who's really good at that.

Nick Poninski: I think as well,…

Nick Poninski: you can reim it that you are doing them a favor. They're doing a favor for a friend. …

Susan : Yeah.

Nick Poninski: that friend has problems. That's how you can sell it for want of a better phrase. And Marie, I know that obviously it's a bit direct and you've just shared that with us.

Nick Poninski: Thank you for sharing that. the terrible news I've got for you is that you're going to have to get outside of your comfort zone if you want to make this work. You're going to have to do things you've not done before.

Nick Poninski: And I don't know if you guys have heard of her. Mel Robbins. she's fantastic, isn't she? And …

Susan : Yeah, I haven't read the book yet,…

Susan : but is that I can't remember what it's called now. Brain's gone.

Nick Poninski: she's got three books that I know of.

Susan : But the one that everybody's talking about at the moment.

Nick Poninski: There's The 5-second rule, the high five had habit and let them theory or…

Susan : Yeah, let them.

Nick Poninski: something. Yeah.

Susan : That's the one that everybody's talking about at the moment. So, basically, let them go on with it, isn't it? The principle don't do them, do you.

Nick Poninski: Yes. Yeah.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: It's fantastic advice. But I think one key phrase that she shared and I always go back to is no one's coming to save you, you have to save you. I love that phrase cuz that's like wow, that's a killer that one.

Nick Poninski: So if you want to make this work, Marie

Marie : I think for me,…

Marie : so I currently have some clients.  If I could get to the point where I almost have a template that I send them at the end, perhaps asking for feedback saying who do they know to refer that I don't have to come up with it each time that I feel like that's just closing out the project. I would be more comfortable with it because it's just like the next step on my checklist of send them an invoice, make sure I'm paid, ask for feedback, ask them to consider who might also need my services.  If I can frame it like that to myself, I would be more comfortable. But I know that the task is no different. I then I don't consider it the hard cell. Okay.

Nick Poninski: So do it.

Nick Poninski: You have my permission.

Susan : I think that…

Susan : on the flip side of that, if I were re receiving a service like we do, when you go to a restaurant, they give you a little card, don't they? QR code, give us a review. It's and not everybody will, but then at least yours is a more personal service, isn't it? Ours is a more personal service. So, people are probably they know you as a human being more than just I've been to a restaurant and I'm going to give you a review. so certainly if I was on the receiving end of that, I would happily if I'd had a good service, which I'm sure you've given, I would happily give that feedback. So, yeah, I always try to think of you being a receiver of that. Like Mick, when you're saying you're making that call, if I received that call from you, just because I'm an obstinate individual,…

Susan : I'd probably go, "No, still don't want a cold call.  by it's just who I am. if you were selling something that I was interested in if you happen to be calling me on a day when I was interested in buying something fair enough. but yeah as a receiver of that kind of on the end of you've done a good job I'd answer that.  I'd do that.

Nick Poninski: Yeah, I think you can preface.

Nick Poninski: Is that the way of saying that? Start the relationship off on the right foot. as soon as you're signing them up as a client and they've signed up and they signed your terms or whatever, you can say, " just to manage your expectations, at the end of the project, I'd really love it if you could share a referral for me just to help me grow. That's how I'm able to keep my fees so affordable. It's because I'm not paying for adverts." Something along those lines. you I'm doing you a favor. It's a win. Bit of psychology in there.

00:30:00

Susan : which is why I'm looking at giving this first client a discount because I'm basically saying you're my first client. and I'll be saying, I'm doing this because I want you to be able to see that I'm delivering…

Susan : what I say and you're going to refer and you're going to and I'm going to ask you for feedback. And she's effectively said that already to be fair, is that it's reciprocal. I'm helping her out because she hasn't got a clue. And she's helping me out cuz my first client.

Nick Poninski: I think that's a really key thing there as well,…

Nick Poninski: Susan, you're obviously doing these people a favor by sharing your expertise and your wisdom. you're not going to them like some sort of beggar and you're not adding value and you're taking from them. You're adding value to their organization.

Susan : Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: I think that's something that we kind of lose focus of sometimes as service providers.

Nick Poninski: so yeah, in terms of referrals though, Marie, there are certain things when you finish work with a client, turning that client into more clients, that's key to growing business, right? So, as you said, the referrals, if you don't necessarily want to use the golden token, then you can say to them, do you have any referrals?  But also a key thing would be can you turn their story into a customer success story that you put on your website or you share it with your email list because then people think they've helped Johnny over there they can help me might not necessarily be true but that's how people think right so get the refer referral get the customer success story get the testimonial as Susan was saying for me I always say get the testimonials in one place some people seem to think that they should

Nick Poninski: do Google Maps, Trust Pilot, LinkedIn, etc. get them in one place. Asking people for a testimonial, that's hard work as it is. And getting them to do it more than once, that's a booger. So, for me, I always get them on LinkedIn just so it's easy. Then I screenshot it, add it to my website. jobs are good but yeah, make sure to get the testimonial because that's selling to the future people. If they've helped them, they can help me. That's how our brains think. Just make sure to get a record of As I say, a screenshot of some form or another because if you put it on a third party website like Google Maps, Trust Pilot, LinkedIn, whatever, somebody clicks their fingers,…

Nick Poninski: your account has gone, all those referrals are gone, you're in trouble. So that's why you should get a screenshot.

Nick Poninski: Does that make sense? No problem.

Marie : Yes. Thank you.

Nick Poninski: Do you have any more for me, Cuz you seem to have specific when I asked at the start, does anyone have any specific and you said no? So, I know Caesar wants to ask about a proposal,…

Susan : Have you got clients?

Susan : Yeah, I have got a client.

Nick Poninski: but good

Marie : I mean this is a really specific question,…

Marie : so it may not be relevant, but I guess I've had kind of those initial calls where it's 15minute free call, with what is probably a reasonably warm lead because it is a referral.  And then I think I need to change my mindset to kind of how I close out that call cuz the first few I'm like, "Yeah, sure. I'll wait to hear from you." And then actually one or two of them have come back and they're like, "Okay, we're going to put some time in your diary." And I'm like, "I haven't signed a contract. Am I able to bill them for this?"  So I guess some advice around kind of how I close that initial 15minute kind of call where we introduce each other. I tell them my rates. They give me a brief overview of their business.

Marie : then I guess do that kind of sales close that I introduce a contract and…

Susan : What is it?

Marie : I'm then available…

Nick Poninski: Yeah, great question.

Nick Poninski: Love that. That's how do we on board people? And Susan sat forward because she's thought, I'm doing a proposal to this, so this is highly relevant.

Marie : which it is a very specific question and…

Marie : I know that as I speak it out loud it should be really simple  And I should just be able to close the call and say, "Great. So, if you're happy, I'll send over my terms." But I don't

Nick Poninski: Yeah. …

Nick Poninski: So, there's many ways of answering that question. let's start at the beginning. If somebody comes to you, i.e. this is an inbound lead, right?

Nick Poninski: I would urge you to consider charging a consultation call fee. the reason being if somebody pays for your time before you onboard a new client,…

00:35:00

Nick Poninski: there should be three questions in your mind. Can you help them? Are they financially ready and willing to invest in a solution? Now, Yeah.

Marie : So I guess that's the answers I get from that initial free 15minute call…

Marie : where I give them my rates, they say yes or no, they tell me a bit about their business and generally what kind of help they're looking for I guess because typically they've been reasonably startupish businesses. So they tell me kind of the maturity of their business to understand…

Nick Poninski: So yeah, in the free 15inut consultation call that you're offering, what usually happens?

Nick Poninski: Are they coming in just to understand who you are or they come in with a specific problem?

Marie : who I am. So that they've been given my details but they've never had a conversation with me. They don't know what services I can offer other than speak to Marie. She does HR.

Nick Poninski: So, if I can be direct here, it sounds like there's a lack of processor. You don't know what they're ringing for is basically…

Marie : Yeah. I've just been CCD into an email.

Nick Poninski: which then yeah.

Marie : Let me introduce you to Marie. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: So I Yeah.

Nick Poninski: So for me, I would say before you get on the phone with them, either you should know where this call is going or b you should be asking questions to make sure where that call is going because you want to be understanding is this some sort of project like they have a specific grievance or a disciplinary or something that they want dealing with or is this going towards a retainer i.e. no we're growing we need this.

Marie : Yeah.

Nick Poninski: So if you can ask those questions before you get on a call with them understand their world what is it that you are walking into and then that way that when you get on the phone with them you're either a talking about that a retainer package or b if they want to talk about a specific problem there's no reason not to charge for a consultation call and say listen I understand your world I don't know £100 whatever it is for your consultation call by the end of

Nick Poninski: You'll have a complete plan from A to B to get where you want to go. If I can't help you, you get your money back. If we decide to work together and there's a bigger project at the end of it, we'll use that as a deposit towards it, etc. But if it's going to be towards a retainer of some form, then again, that then presents you with an opportunity to lead the call along the lines of all right,…

Nick Poninski: okay, so this is what you've shared with me. These are my recommendations. How do you feel about that?

Marie : Yeah, I think it goes back to…

Marie : what I was saying before about I just feel like I need a bit more process in what I'm doing, a bit more structure so that I've got consistency. I know that I'm hitting what I need on each call. yeah.

Marie : I guess that's the joy of starting out is that you learn as you go.

Nick Poninski: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Marie : And I know that the next time I'm in that situation, I'm going to be a bit more prepared. yeah.

Nick Poninski: 100%. One thing that I want you to take away with you, Marie, you're the expert. They're coming to you with a problem. They need your You need to take charge of the call. Yeah, but you're not selling.

Marie : I guess they're more experts in selling than I am, though.

Nick Poninski: You're providing a solution. They've come to you with a problem. They want Whatever that problem is, solve the problem for them. Tell them how much the investment required, not pay, not fee,…

Marie : Perfect. Thank you.

Nick Poninski: not payment.

Nick Poninski: Tell them how much the investment required is because that sounds like a positive thing, Rather than price or charge, they can have negative connotations. How much is the investment required to get that problem resolved and then present them with the solution?

Nick Poninski: You're welcome. Do you have more specific problems? I'm conscious we've got give or take 13 minutes. I'm not anal about time. but I don't want to take up all your time either, ladies. and I know Susan wants to talk about her proposal.

Marie : Let's talk about Susan's proposal.

Susan : It's fine.

Susan : Carry on. I've got It's not a problem.

Marie : I feel the pressure now.

Susan : Go. …

Nick Poninski: Susan's learning from you, Emmy.

Susan : no. And this is why I come on to join these things is because just that bit that you said there about investment required I've got cost of a proposal and I've just thought I'm changing that I'm going to put investment required because as you say it changes the narrative from being something that they've got to think about how do I fund this to this is going to and the lady that I'm working with is very much as I say she's giving all the right buying

00:40:00

Susan : signals is she knows that she's got to have this done and she's got no reason not to give me to do it because, by this point in time I'm the only person she's speaking to and she's taking a punt on me. but it just generally putting that rather than putting cost or fee or whatever. it supports the fact that we're providing them a solution,…

Susan : not they're coming to us and it's going to cost them It's going to cost them It's the ROI of the investment, isn't it? They're investing on this and then they're not going to get sued because they haven't got an employment contract or they're not going to get whatever it is.

Nick Poninski: Yeah, that person is over here and…

Nick Poninski: they have problems in their life and they're going to end the call with you, Susan, and they're going to be in a much better place. There is going to be an investment required…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: but you are taking them to a great place.

Susan : So, Marie Carry on.

Marie : What else? Nick, what's your views on not direct messaging people on LinkedIn?

Nick Poninski: Great question.

Nick Poninski: Yeah,…

Marie : I thought I had no more questions, but I can keep going.

Susan : Give me a little bit of time at the end maybe.

Nick Poninski: great question. so there are a variety of ways that you can handle this. depending on your style, right? Some people might like to just go in with I advise a variety of methods in my book but there is a script that I can suggest in the book and it's more along the lines of I'll be fully honest with you. This is a prospecting question. Do you want to tell me to get lost and disconnect or give me one simple question and then decide? That can be super direct and that gets you into a business conversation.

Nick Poninski: Alternatively, you could record a Loom, when you've just connected with them. Hey there, Marie. I've just had a look over your website. Some really great stuff there. Love what you're doing. Just wanted to pop by and properly introduce myself. my name is Marie. I do XY Z. That's going to help you with ABC.  I know now is probably not the right time for that, but if you ever need any help with that, then it'd be great to chat because I'm really good at what I do. again, playing into their ego. I really like this about you. Then we're talking about solutions. We're talking about specific situations there that they can latch on to. Their neurons in their brain will be firing when they hear these words. And then that kind of pull back.

Nick Poninski: I know now is probably not the right time for you. So, we're not being pushy, but if you ever need any help, I'm here for you and I'm really good at what I do. kind of a little bit of a wink nudge nudge, but also you've got confidence in yourself. Why wouldn't you? You're an expert at what you do. alternatively, there's, …

Nick Poninski: DMing a bit of back and th. There's a bit more of a long DMing a bit back and forth. You can click the star in their profile, the bell. So every time they post, you can jump in there and post a positive comment and then eventually you can build up a relationship with them and say along lines of, "Hey, do you want to have a coffee and learn about each other's businesses?" And again, that's the third option is it's a bit longer. So it depends on how quickly you want to move the conversation.

Marie : about. Okay.

Marie : And what about real world networking?

Nick Poninski: Real world networking. Love it.

Nick Poninski: if you visit my website, there is a freebie download elevator pitch. It blows everything else out of the water. it is basically because a lot of people's networking elevator pitch can be quite dry, right? It's hi, I'm Nick and I help consultants with their marketing and then you sit down. That's not great.  So what we say is something along the lines of does anyone else have a problem generating leads and signing clients? Anyone else? And you put your hand up and very visually people will be like I do have that problem. Then we've engaged them because what can happen at networking events is you get into everyone's standing up doing their elevator pitch. You can gloss over your blame brain flies away somewhere.

00:45:00

Nick Poninski: But by putting a hand up, we pull people back in and then you share what you do, who you do it for, why they should hire you, At the end of it, call to action. If you ever need any help, visit my website, marie do marie.com,…

Nick Poninski: and contact me. Does that make sense?

Marie : Yeah, I promise.

Nick Poninski: Excellent. about.

Susan : What? …

Marie : I think that was my last question.

Susan : that's led to a question for me. What's the bell on direct? You said there's a bell that you can click on and then you see somebody posting again. Is it on LinkedIn?

Nick Poninski: Go on, Marie. Share it.

Susan : That's fair. So if I look…

Marie : Yeah, it's…

Marie : if you click on somebody's page where their name is just to the right hand side. So under their heading photo

Susan : if I look at you Nick right view full profile.

Nick Poninski: You should ring my bell. It's wonderful with the stuff I post.

Nick Poninski: And there should be a bill in there right hand corner.

Susan : I never knew that.

Nick Poninski: Yeah. Yeah.

Susan : So then Did you say that will flag up when they next post?

Nick Poninski: So every time when you click on and…

Susan : Then you can engage.

Nick Poninski: you've got notifications, you will always get a notification…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: So if there's somebody that you want to track for example and nurture and…

Susan : Yeah. Brilliant.

Nick Poninski: yeah excellent I think one thing that I do want to circle back with when I was sharing about the methods that you can use in LinkedIn outreach make sure to follow up just…

Susan : Thank you very much. That's another little nugget for me.

Nick Poninski: because somebody doesn't reply to even your second message you can even make it a bit of fun tell me to booger off otherwise I'll keeping

Nick Poninski: messaging you, and put a little laughing emoji or a video or something. but the magic is in the follow-up. What they actually mean there is that we need to receive a message a certain few times before we take any action on it.

Nick Poninski: How often do you see something and you think, " that could be good." But then you just move on to your next task. That's why we talk about followup. so yeah, that's why email's so great as well because you're repeatedly turning up in people's world.

Susan : Yeah. …

Marie : I wasted my time putting the makeup on.

Nick Poninski: Go on then, Susan. Let's have a look at this proposal.

Susan : I'm not showing you it.

Nick Poninski: …

Susan : 

Susan : Not exposing everything out there. all at once.

Nick Poninski: it's only me and Marie. There's no video for this podcast.

Susan : That's a good thing. …

Nick Poninski: Mhm.

Susan : when you were saying you're not putting the names on, I was like, so it's a startup recruitment consultancy, they've got two businesses. Marie's just sent me an invite. they've got nothing.  they've registered the company they've got an accountant and they have nothing in relation to HR.  So, basically we jumped on a call yesterday and she basically said, "I know that I need certain policies and I know that I've got my notes here. and I'd got all these things prepared that I wanted to talk to them about and ask them certain things, but basically said, "We've completed company's house. We've got an accountant. I need contracts, documents, policies. they're going to provide staff to factories in the NHS."

Susan : And she said basically I want you to work with me I need this I need the contracts and…

Nick Poninski: Mhm.

Susan : I need all the setup stuff and then can you work with me and help me as my person ongoing and I'm like she's giving me all the running signals so I need to get this right but she said how much do you cost and I wasn't prepared to say it on the call because there was so much going on and I wanted time to sort of reflect and think I need to get this right.  I've already looked at my pricing and I've already got my day rates set out and everything else, but I want to make sure that I was doing it thoughtfully rather than just like this is what I'm going to charge you. so I've it's called an employer package for startups. And I've got the employment contract.

Susan : I've got the core policies, a first day checklist, 30-day email follow-up,…

Susan : which if she takes me on as a retainer is fine anyway, and a meeting to go through it all with them. How much would you charge for something like that? That's not what I wanted.

Nick Poninski: I can't answer that.

Nick Poninski: I've got no idea about anything there. I can't tell you what I could tell you is I recorded a podcast two nights ago about pricing. So, I will and that's coming out next Wednesday, but I'll share it with you after this call. and you can absorb the content…

00:50:00

Nick Poninski: because there's loads of tips that I share in there about pricing. one thing that I would say is at the start of what you just shared with me, you've called it the Employ …

Susan : employer bundle I've called it.

Susan : I've just opened it now.

Nick Poninski: I like the word bundle.

Susan : So, it says perfect for new employees or businesses looking to get the essentials in place quickly and effectively.  The bundle includes the standard contract of employment checklist, induction plan, and day one admin checklist, the disciplinary grievance capability policies, a basic staff handbook, 60-minute onboarding session, and 30 days of follow-up on email support. And what I've done is I've said to get that individually because I've got project rates and I'll do you an employee handbook for 450 quid, for example. at I'm going to tell you because well. you might not want to put this on your podcast, but you might edit this out. so, I put a tailored employee contract would be 250 quid. A bpoke policy would be 200. I can see my rewriting this down. And I'd be interested to again, we don't need to do on here, but I don't know whether that's competitive. I've looked at various different things.

Susan : I'm looking at what my rate is, what I want to charge for me and my experience and my expertise, and then I'm kind of trying to convert it into ad hoc pay as you go support,…

Nick Poninski: Okay.

Susan : then I've got a retained model, and then I've got this employer bundle. and if they bought it individually, and I'm going to watch your reactions. If they bought those individually, those seven things would be 300 with my pricing.  I'm giving them a bundle price of 950 to buy them all together. They're saving 350 quid is what I'm putting out there. and then I was prepared to give because it's my first client. I was prepared to give a 10% discount on it because it's going to take me I've got some of this stuff already. I'm not going to have to sit down and do x amount of hours work on it because I've got some of it already.

Susan : And then it'll be ready for the next client. So it's not work to be done. And then my retainer,…

Nick Poninski: Keep going.

Susan : and this is where I'm stuck because I think she's going to need a lot of handholding. And so she's going to be using me a lot. And people that I've spoken to have said, " no, we don't say certain number of hours." And I realize, sorry, we're at time now, so jump stop.  And so they've said don't say you'll do six hours a month for them. give them a fee and this is in my document. It's unlimited telephone and email advice, hands-on support and consultancy, on-site attendance for employee meetings where appropriate and proactive guidance on compliance and best practice. And for that I've said 600.

Marie : How many employees are they expecting to have and…

Susan : This is the thing.

Marie : how quickly?

Susan : They don't and this is what so they don't have any employees at the moment. So, I've said take the bundle from me and if you want me on retainer for all the other stuff because they haven't got DBS checks. They've not built up right to works. I don't know what they're aware of that with the payroll statutory benefits and they need mandatory training because they want to work for the NHS. I've worked in the industry that knows what that training is and so I can help with that. So, what I've said is 855 one-off charge for the employee bundle with my 10% discount and I'm giving them a 10% discount on month one of 540 quid and then I'm only committing to a three month retainer at the moment because in my head they don't know how many employees they're going to have. They don't know how quickly going to build up.

Susan : So I thought initially if I say keep it to three months 600 quid with the right then to review after three months but if they've got a lot of employees and recruitment being as it is it's going to be probably quite high turnover employee relations type activity but placing agency workers that I think that the time commitment might go up and therefore my charges would go up but I don't know I

Susan : I don't want to lose her, but I also don't want to sell myself short.

Susan : Is that competitive? Without giving me your fees, Marie, would you say that's a competitive fee for a retainer?

Marie : I haven't done any retainers.

Marie : I've done everything hourly…

Susan : Right. Yeah.

Marie : because I've only just started out. I'm figuring it out as I go.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Marie : I guess my concern with your proposal would be it's such an unknown where they're starting out whether you could sell them that bundle and…

Marie : then I would say you definitely have to have in that retainer something about reasonable. Yeah. Because…

00:55:00

Susan : Yeah. Reasonable usage.

Susan : Yeah. …

Marie : if they start saying, as we're launching, we pretty much need you full-time for the first month." You're not doing that for 500 quid.

Susan : and that's where I keep oscillating between it's good to have a retainer. it's an income.

Susan : income stream, but 600 quid's not going to keep me in wine. so, and I think it's probably going to be high contribution to start with because she's so needy in terms of she knows nothing and…

Susan : then it might actually stabilize or taper off because everything's in place. So, I was thinking that but I don't want to go in with a ridiculously high amount. So maybe if I just say, that'll get you x amount of hours a month and anything over and above that will be billable at an hourly rate.

Marie : I guess I would also look at it maybe in a slightly different way of…

Marie : if it was an established company, how would I be deciding the retainer fee? would you do a retainer fee based on sort of 1 to 15 employees for example and…

Susan : Yes. Yeah.

Marie : then your next tier of retainer is 16 to 15 employees. So maybe you make it clear that your retainer fee is discounted for the first month while you figure it out together.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Marie : Month two is based on the predicted number of employees. But when they hit the cap for argument sake 15 that then triggers the review…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Marie : because if they scale really quickly that's a high investment for you and it gets you out of that three month thing. I don't know.

Susan : Yeah. Maybe that's just his natural resting face.

Marie : I mean Nick's nodding but also pulling faces at my suggestion.  Say  Just the blind leading the blind at this point.

Susan : …

Nick Poninski: It is.

Nick Poninski: Sorry, I'm thinking about what you're saying, but I'm also thinking about other stuff. And no,…

Susan : sorry because we've cut into your other stuff time. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: It's helpful for me to be able to share experience and it's helpful for me to have five minutes where I'm just considering everything that you're saying.

Nick Poninski: It's really great. the retainer as Marie says that's really difficult cuz you don't know what you're dealing with. I think Marie's giving you some great advice there.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Susan : Thank you. Definitely. and it is a total unknown. Yeah. but that's what? I'm okay with that because it's just a sounding board, isn't it? Because it can be a very lonely place working for yourself and being a consultant. And that's why much I don't like networking.  I have been attending sessions with other folk and it's great to hear other people's struggles so I know I'm not alone. but yeah, no, it's just getting people's reactions to never mind, what are you charging? I'm not in direct competition with you, but does it sound like I'm in anywhere near the point?

Marie : I'll be really open. I'm charging £130 an hour.

Susan : I want to do that, but I'm going, " I shouldn't do that." My Yeah,…

Marie : The first person I told, I died. Not just a little bit inside, a lot. Cuz I was like, "Nobody's going to say yes." And they went, "Yeah, okay, fine. Send me your terms." And I went, Okay. And…

Susan : I'm selling myself short.

Marie : then the next client, I just said it with confidence and…

Marie : they didn't about an eyelid and I was like, "Okay,

Susan : Yeah, I think…

Susan : if I'm going to I keep going, I'll do it a little bit less because I'm starting out and a little bit less I'm starting out and I'm kind of like, what are you doing? Because you 20 plus year professional and you in a permanent role,…

Susan : you were on a good package. Why? I mean, and I still don't get me wrong, but and it's not all about the money, but why am I going Yeah.

Susan : And I'm prepared to give her and probably a couple of other people that are in the pipeline at the moment a discount based on the fact that I'm finding my theme.

Marie : So, some advice that somebody else gave me was that maybe I would want to give a discount to the first few clients.

Marie : But they said, "Make it really clear that this discount is for x period of time and…

Susan : Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that I'm seeing as a tradeoff for those testimonials and…

Marie : then this is my normal rate." But actually, is your advice worth any less in those first few months?

Susan : which bearing in mind all that we've just talked about in terms of, marketing and leads and everything else is I want some testimonials on my website.

Susan : I want some reviews on LinkedIn and that to me is worth discounting myself for a short period of time because it just gives me comfort that it's kind of like a requirement if you'll get this discount If you don't give me a testimonial, you're not going to get a discount. I won't say it in that way. But then it's making that stepping stone for those referrals and…

01:00:00

Susan : that kind of other stuff that we talked about. that's how I'm framing it in my head anyway to be comfortable with it.

Marie : You just made me think that one of the things I need to look at is changing my contract to include that I can use their brand in promotional stuff…

Marie : if needed. Nick is also nodding but pulling a face.

Nick Poninski: No, no,…

Nick Poninski: no, no faces. Sorry if there was a face. I was just thinking about what Susan says just to quickly jump in. when you say about all these testimonials that there is nothing stopping you Susan going to your old network whoever the hell you worked with before asking them get those recommendations on your LinkedIn and…

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: you could even write it for them just have them copy and paste it that's what I do sorry I broke up Marie

Susan : No, no, that's fine. that's brilliant. Thank you for I mean, you've given me food for thought. You've not given me an outright answer to my question Is that the right money? But it's still I think I'm selling myself short on the hourly rate.

Susan : I think that bundle because if I wrote those things from scratch, it would definitely cost more than 950 quid of my time to do that from scratch.

Marie : I'm probably like you,…

Marie : Susan, as well though, in that I would undercharge because I know that the time I'm investing in writing those, I would then save them as templates and be able to just resell them.

Susan : Yeah. Yes.

Marie : So actually I would want to sell them at the rate I would sell to the next company and the next company because I'm making the profit each time moving forward rather than them charge them for that setup fee of a product that'll become standard. Yeah.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. there's no margin on it now, but there'll be 99% margin on it next time I sell it…

Susan : because I'll just be branding top and bottom. And yeah. Yeah. that's why I was going in at that kind of level. Thank you both.

Nick Poninski: Just to quickly jump in before we wrap things up,…

Nick Poninski: just a bit of psychology about pricing that I shared this in the podcast for next week that I'll be sharing with you today for your sneak peek. but rather than when you say about all these things that you're doing for them as part of this package give them a value so that they can see that they have a monetary value and…

Susan : Thank you.

Susan : Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Nick Poninski: then at the end of it when you said that you were going to offer £950 I that you said what you might want to consider doing is something very specific because £950 is like where have you got that figure from?

Nick Poninski: you've just pulled it out of thin air. But if you put something like £946.73,…

Nick Poninski: they're like, " how the hell do I negotiate with that?" There's obviously a very good reason for that. And it's avoids negotiation. I do it with my book. There's a very specific reason there.

Susan : I suppose it was a very good.

Susan : Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Poninski: And you'll see Asda have started doing it. when you go to Asda's, you start seeing it as 27 or something. I don't 957. We love prices ending in seven for some reason.

Susan : Yeah. Yes, it is here.

Nick Poninski: Psychology of the western world. China would be eight but we're seven. but yeah if you have a specific price that can stave off negotiation cuz 950 is like you've just come up with that 94763 is like okay and…

Susan : Yes. Thank you.

Nick Poninski: it forces them to take a step back and think.

Nick Poninski: So I don't know where this client is coming from and whether or not she is going to negotiate with me, but that can help with that kind of Yeah.

Susan : Yeah, makes sense. and it was a case of I looked at it and went, "What does look like?" I actually looked it the other way and said, "Saving 350 quid looks good." So I put bought individually 1,300…

Marie : Or could you do it as save a percentage?

Susan : because that each of those things are listed in my normal pay as you go services above. So they can see that that's the right amount if they bought it individually. but then the bundle price I was focusing on the does it look good when you say you can save 350 quid. I'd go for something where I was saving 350 quid percentage. Yeah. Yeah. I'll definitely tweak it so that it's not a round figure. and make it so it's a decent percentage. As I say, it's a once and…

Susan : done pretty much. I can then lift and shift to other clients. Great. Thank you very much.

Nick Poninski: Superb. No problem.

Nick Poninski: Any more thank you both for joining me today. I'll be sure to send over the podcast for next week for pricing. you might pick a few things up there. And yeah, that's it. no problem.

01:05:00

Susan : Brilliant. Thanks your time. Been really useful.

Nick Poninski: No problem. I'll see you both on LinkedIn. No doubt.

Susan : Yes. All right. Bye.

Nick Poninski: right. Yeah. Bye.

Meeting ended after 01:05:42 👋

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