The Moment Everything Clicked for Paul Neal

In today’s episode, I’m joined by Paul Neal, from Verdant Purpose HR.

An HR consultant who went from posting, hoping and winging it to finally building a consultancy he could rely on.

When Paul first came to me, he was doing what most HR consultants quietly end up doing:

• Posting on LinkedIn when he remembered

• Taking the odd referral

• Trying to be consistent without any real structure

• Wondering why everything still felt unpredictable

He wasn’t doing anything “wrong”… he just didn’t have a system that actually worked.

In this conversation, Paul shares the exact moment everything clicked — the moment he stopped winging it, narrowed his niche, plugged in a simple, controlled funnel, and finally started feeling confident about where his next clients were coming from.

We talk about:

• The mistakes almost every HR consultant makes at the start
• How Paul realised he was building his business backwards
• Why “generic HR content” was killing his engagement
• The mindset shift that changed how he sold his services
• The sales call that closed in 7 minutes
• How niching into charities transformed his clarity and results
• Why a predictable pipeline gave him the confidence to think bigger

If you’ve ever thought “I should be further ahead by now” or “I’m doing all the things but nothing feels predictable,” this episode will feel like looking in a mirror.

Paul’s story is proof that when you add structure, clarity and a simple system — everything changes.

👉 Listen now and see what’s possible for your own consultancy.

Want my help getting more leads and clients for your HR consultancy?

1️⃣ Start with the book — The Complete Guide to Building a £70K HR Consultancy

Discover the Client Control method so you attract better clients, win more valuable projects, and charge what you’re worth.

👉 https://theinfluentialconsultant.co.uk/the-book/

2️⃣ Work with me

Join the Fastlane Formula to plug the Client Control method and the 3 Phase Funnel into your business and build a predictable pipeline of premium clients — so you never face feast-or-famine again.

👉 https://theinfluentialconsultant.co.uk/fastlaneformula100/

Transcript

00:01 Nicholas Poninski: Hello there, and welcome back to another episode of- marketing med easy for H.R. consultants with me, Nick Poninski. Today's episode is a really special one because I am joined by someone who embodies exactly what happens when a H.I.
00:13 Nicholas Poninski: consultant stops winging it and start building their consultancy with structure, clarity and intention. We'll the next edition. Paul joined me at a point where he was doing all the usual things, posting money remembered, taking the Audrey Farrell, hoping clients would appear.
00:27 Nicholas Poninski: And he is brilliant at HR, but his business felt unpredictable. So does that sound familiar? Well, what you're a- about to hear is the moment everything changed for him.
00:38 Nicholas Poninski: Because we plugged in a simple controlled system that gave him direction, confidence, and a business he- could actually re- actually rely on.
00:46 Nicholas Poninski: So if you're listening to this thinking, that's me, that's exactly where I am right now, then you're gonna- We get a lot from this conversation, so let's get into it.
00:55 Nicholas Poninski: First up, Paul, welcome to the show. Thanks, Nick. Ahhh. You are more than welcome, my friend. So, for those of, erm, for those of people listening along at home, let's have your elevator pitch.
01:07 Nicholas Poninski: Why are you? Why should we care? 
01:10 Paul Neal: And so, may Paul, erm, I run an HR consultancy called Verdon Pepsec Child that, But solely focused on charities. Uhm, I suppose the point of, you know, why should you care is I started this, like, ba back in April without a clue and kind of made all the common mistakes of, I think I should do this.
01:29 Paul Neal: It didn't work. I think I should do that. It didn't work. And then I found a book. Um, and And and I'm I read the first couple of pages of that book and just, yeah.
01:39 Paul Neal: Every page I turned, I was like, oh, I've made that mistake. Turn to the next one. I've made that mistake.
01:43 Paul Neal: And I kind of wanted to, you know, pitch in on this conversation and say, you don't need to make the mistakes that everyone else is making.
01:51 Paul Neal: There is a be- That's a way to do this. Umm, yeah, and that's led us on to what we now, uh, six, seven months on now.
02:00 Paul Neal: To where we are here. Yes, just for those that, 
02:03 Nicholas Poninski: uh, for listening along at home, that's be obvious. What was the book you found, Paul? 
02:08 Paul Neal: Uhh, it was… it may have been your book, it may have been the… it might have been the… like how to make 70k a year book.
02:14 Paul Neal: Uhm, yeah. Yeah. I… I think I… I think I bought the book at, like, quarter past six in the morning on a treadmill, and was like, this seems good.
02:23 Paul Neal: Uh, let's… I've a read of this, read a page whilst walking on the treadmill. That is difficult to do. Uhm, and was like, okay, I've read enough, I'm putting this down.
02:31 Paul Neal: Fini… Finish, finish the gym and then carry on really to get later. 
02:36 Nicholas Poninski: Awesome. And you found me through a Facebook advert, 
02:40 Paul Neal: Yes, well, I found you through Facebook ad, umm, which I then obviously popped my details in and was like, am I going to get spammed?
02:48 Paul Neal: Did not, thankfully. Uhm, yeah, signed up for the book, read the book, what, about half way through the book and then- and I think- I can't remember whether you reached out or I reached out to you.
02:59 Paul Neal: Uhm, and we had that early conversation to go, you know. Kinda hit a wall. Yeah, I'm slightly impatient, so I was like, I want to know what's at the end of the book without reading.
03:12 Paul Neal: Uhm, and that kind of conversation around, what do I do? What's next? And that early conversation, because I think when we first started talking, I was like, uhh, Like, I want to support charities and B-cops.
03:23 Paul Neal: Yeah. That there's three B-cops in the UK. Erm, because it's not that- much of a thing over here. Erm, and so yeah, so that conversation, we narrowed down that actually, I really like charities because Just to tack on from my old, I wanna support SMEs.
03:40 Paul Neal: Yeah. So, let go of that quite quickly. Had to go at some That was bluntly kind of making it up as I went along.
03:49 Paul Neal: I made some really crappy advert spent. and a few pounds and it got- I got a couple of leads which turned out to be friends of mine that thought it'd be really good to sign up for my news lesson.
04:00 Paul Neal: Umm, did not realise then that they basically, you know, I paid to have their details but I already had. Umm, so yeah, so then I was like, I think we spoke, what was it?
04:13 Paul Neal: Uh, like July time maybe? Yeah, I think it was. 
04:16 Nicholas Poninski: Yeah. And then was like, you 
04:18 Paul Neal: know, what next is there a better way of doing this. Um, and, and yeah, and then I jumped on this thing called the 6th.
04:24 Paul Neal: Cess squad, which has been like 12 weeks of intense weekly kind of like brain dumps and lots of- homework about how to kick things off-off and, uh, yeah, it's kind of got me to where I am now.
04:39 Paul Neal: And, uh, yeah, wanna- A couple of clients out the back of, actually doing things sensibly as opposed to going. I've made a really glossy document and I'm, really like it and I think it's lovely, but when I send it to them, I hear nothing back.
04:56 Paul Neal: But they are- a bit. They are still pretty documents, but they're useless. Yeah, yeah, 
05:01 Nicholas Poninski: I hear that before. I love that. So, yeah, I mean, let's go back to the beginning. Just make sure I love that overview, and I love that introduction.
05:11 Nicholas Poninski: Umm. But I guess, when you were reading the book and you were reading about all these mistakes to a fight and you realize you may hate them, was that the moment that you realized something had to change or was there something else?
05:26 Nicholas Poninski: I- 
05:28 Paul Neal: I think- I think it was very much a case of, some of them I've already made so I had all this set myself up initial and go, I'm gonna support SMEs.
05:34 Paul Neal: Um, and I do it- We'll in the I spent so much time on my logo and thinking, oh, that looks lovely, and I picked my color scheme and everything.
05:44 Paul Neal: And then I learnt that, No one cares about your logo. I don't. 
05:48 Nicholas Poninski: I 
05:48 Paul Neal: think in that story of mistakes, there was a few that I've made- Bye. that I wish I'd bought the book earlier and learnt them earlier.
05:56 Paul Neal: There was a few that I was in the process of making, you know, jumping onto a client call and- And talking about how, you know, basically convincing people why they shouldn't work with me, and then the mistakes that were coming ahead.
06:09 Paul Neal: In terms of the whole, how do I scale this? How do I, you know, how do I look about the options about eventually employing people in my consultant?
06:17 Paul Neal: So, yeah, I think the book helped me realise that actually, I think you call it the dumb tax in terms of, I was being the village idiot, in terms of I was working my way through the mistakes.
06:33 Paul Neal: It's kind of like I can do this slow form, but my earlier point of being an impatient person, And I kind 
06:39 Nicholas Poninski: of did a quicker way 
06:40 Paul Neal: to. Get through the mistakes. It's been, don't get me wrong. Six, eight, ten months ago. Didn't even. even. No, no, this was a skill for me.
06:51 Paul Neal: So, to learn to be able to do it is amazing, but some of those bits I wish. Which I hadn't learned the hard way.
06:59 Paul Neal: Yeah. 
07:01 Nicholas Poninski: Now that, I think that's why people pay for coaching, right? It's why people- We hope. Pay you for your services and people invest with me for my services because it's, it's like a gondola.
07:12 Nicholas Poninski: We'll in the one. At the top of the mountain, rather than having a backpack full of rocks. Because, you know, you're not making those mistakes on your own.
07:21 Nicholas Poninski: Instead. I'm just there going, nah, I'll talk to you now. 
07:24 Paul Neal: Yeah. Well, that's the thing is kind of the, you know, the backpack for the rock. It's tempting because you can be like, no, throw one at someone, slow them down, and then it looks like you're going, but, and I think, I, I struggled quite early.
07:37 Paul Neal: Because you kind of, you looked at other people in the industry and they were like, you're like, what are they doing that?
07:43 Paul Neal: I'm not. Why do they look successful and I don't? I think getting so many likes on their LinkedIn posts and I'm not, and it's very, it's like a whole different world to why I'm- I used to, and a lot of people looking like they've got it together, uhm, when the probably happened.
08:01 Paul Neal: Social 
08:03 Nicholas Poninski: media, it's erm, it's very deceptive. And that comparison, it's the Feast of Joy! 
08:09 Paul Neal: Brody, would you assume I hadn't joined the first Yes. Yes. 
08:14 Nicholas Poninski: You But yes, circling back a little bit, uhm, yeah, I think you're right, like it is. I'm go ahead For some reason people, I don't know for some reason, people have this idea of, oh I want to try it out myself, I want to do it by myself but, and it's admirable.
08:34 Nicholas Poninski: So, it takes so much time and, you know, that's what I say to people, like, you can invest your time, you can pay that dumb tax, but.
08:41 Nicholas Poninski: Or you can. Just take a short cut. Yeah, and I, I 
08:44 Paul Neal: must admit it did. I expected this like instant thing of like, I had no- pounce my consultancy and I put out the logo and people go, it's lovely and green and it looks like you cut down trees as opposed to actually- do HR and I expected to, like, be inundated with people asking me stuff and it was silence
09:05 Paul Neal: . Yeah. like hmm. Do I have to do something else? And that early kind of, am I doing the right thing?
09:13 Paul Neal: I know I- I've, you know, I set it up quite quickly, and then I was like, oh God, do I need to shut it down now?
09:19 Paul Neal: Cause it's not working. And that kind of, I've had a couple of, like, forks in the road where I've gone.
09:27 Paul Neal: Do I just go back into full-time employment and give up on, I mean, I call it a dream. It sounds really naff, doesn't it?
09:32 Paul Neal: But I really enjoy what I do, so, Yeah. Yeah, I, Yeah, I'm, I think part of me is like why I've stuck with you, because it's like, am I letting go of a dream if I give up on this sort of thing, you know?
09:46 Paul Neal: Yeah, just to, I guess, go 
09:49 Nicholas Poninski: a few steps ahead, because I'm going to circle back a little minute, 
09:52 Paul Neal: but are you happy that you 
09:53 Nicholas Poninski: didn't- Give up on the dream. Yeah, 
09:55 Paul Neal: I am because I, I think particularly that what I've reached out into charities are so close to my heart. In terms of what I do, how I support them, that I would feel like, if I didn't do it, I'd be letting them, down, plus, learning about the different charities that are out there, and the- So many of
10:18 Paul Neal: them. Oh, there's- there's stupid amounts. Like hundreds of thousands of them. Some of them, you know, have got employees, some of them- have got volunteers.
10:28 Paul Neal: Some of them are just a big pot of money that other people get grants from. Umm, but yeah, I- I'm sorry.
10:34 Paul Neal: I think, because I've got such a love for working in this arena, ah, I would feel probably slightly more boring.
10:42 Paul Neal: I'm a person if I didn't support them and it'd be a case of, well, who is out there specifically to support charities?
10:50 Paul Neal: I know there's companies that do the whole, oh, we do this, and we support charities as well, or, you know, we, uh, we, you know, we support this.
10:58 Paul Neal: Cigarette company, but then we also do charities as well. It does. It feels like, you know, you've got enough specialism pages on your way.
11:06 Paul Neal: It looks like you support SMEs, but if you name them, you're hoping to grab some of that kind of, oh, we specialize in everything.
11:14 Paul Neal: Yeah, it's not the same. So yeah, I don't want to give up on it. I don't have any plans to give up on it.
11:21 Paul Neal: Yeah. But, that's 
11:23 Nicholas Poninski: good. So let's go back. So before we started working together, what were you most frustrated with before? Before we started working together, before you plugged in the free-fares formula, 
11:36 Paul Neal: the free-fares funnel, 
11:37 Nicholas Poninski: sorry. Yeah, yeah. 
11:38 Paul Neal: Umm, there's a list. So, 
11:44 Nicholas Poninski: I think it was the 
11:45 Paul Neal: whole- Oh. How do you win clients? Because my first- My first few people that signed up with me were referrals.
11:54 Paul Neal: They were- People that already knew me, they already trusted me on that kind of one to ten trust ratio. They're already up there.
12:01 Paul Neal: Umm, a think, yeah, actually nailing what the great adverts look like and that kind of, like, being able to cheat the system because.
12:10 Paul Neal: is. There comes a limit as to how many people I can be referred to. I think that. So there was that.
12:17 Paul Neal: I think that, you know, what does that. Effective kind of email and newsletter marketing looked like. I, I quite quickly ran out of content of what to write.
12:27 Paul Neal: In my newsletters. And it was very much like. It just felt really, cause I was like, oh, let me tell you about, you know, this new section.
12:35 Paul Neal: And then the Employment Rights Act, or what does the, what's coming in the Employment Rights Bill, and all the kind of vanilla updates that for HRP- We go, oh, how exciting!
12:45 Paul Neal: But then for, for actual business owners that are like, you know, am I going- to make payroll this month? Can I afford to pay myself a salary this month?
12:55 Paul Neal: You know, is what can I do to support this member of staff? That doesn't tie me up in knots? Being able to pitch around those genuine questions like, there's a reason why you're staff are taking the- you know, holiday.
13:08 Paul Neal: Or, you know, there's a reason why your person might be closing their shop at 3 p.m. and telling you they're working till- the end of the day.
13:17 Paul Neal: I just- I ran out of generic HR content quite quickly, but when- when you and I spoke about that kind of- you know, doubling down into what you know and pitching to that audience, I've- I've built six months worth of- content, uh, it's a- it'll put out a newsletter every week.
13:35 Paul Neal: Um, and it- it helps because I get people e-mail me back going, is- it's about my branch. And it's not, uh, because, uh, often made, you know, bit story there, bit story there, smoosh them together, uh, to protect- And it's 
13:57 Nicholas Poninski: scary because 
13:58 Paul Neal: the benefit of knitting down is that you know your industry then- before you know the challenges they're facing. 
14:06 Nicholas Poninski: Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Thanks. So, I guess next question. them. You ehm, if you're honest, what were the things that you were winging?
14:24 Nicholas Poninski: Good. Oh, it's 
14:27 Paul Neal: ugly. I was winging client pictures, umm, so the sales calls with them on riffland. I spent the entire time pretty much convincing them not to go with me, and then I'd give them a really glossy proposal.
14:43 Paul Neal: And because my pricing strategy was too low. It was basically- Please. This looks glossy and suspicious. Uhm, and yeah, I was- I was struggling to kind of pitch.
14:59 Paul Neal: Thank Yeah, what else was I struggling with? Um, I think understanding, you know, I'd heard the word. Thank you funnel many times.
15:10 Paul Neal: And I was like, what is a funnel? What does a funnel look like? And you could find your body weight in YouTube.
15:15 Paul Neal: Cheers. Yeah. Effective funnels and, like, you know, American style marketing. I don't really want that. What does that mean for my, you know, for my niche?
15:27 Paul Neal: See, I hadn't built the funnel because I didn't understand it. I was doing everything manually. I had nothing that really worked for me as a system.
15:36 Paul Neal: And when you're trying to build something and, you know, Bye. Hey, it's really difficult to, you know, to waste that time trying to work out for free.
15:47 Paul Neal: Cause, That stuff doesn't, you know, the learning doesn't pay the bills. Yes. 
15:53 Nicholas Poninski: Yeah, it's very true. You've got to get results really quickly. Yeah, yeah. That's why businesses fail, lack of cash for them.
16:00 Nicholas Poninski: Yeah. 
16:02 Paul Neal: Oh, so, you know, fraud or something. Thank you. So, why did 
16:05 Nicholas Poninski: working with me feel like the right move for you at the time? I'm. Was it the structure, the direction, the clarity?
16:15 Nicholas Poninski: Was it? I mean, the cop out 
16:17 Paul Neal: onto it. The years. Uh, no, I think the. I mean, there was a couple of bits. I think the book, first of all, gave me an inch of that world in terms of, there's someone that knows the answers here.
16:28 Paul Neal: You don't need to make these mistakes on your own, and almost that kind of, like a low-cost try before you buy sort of thing.
16:36 Paul Neal: And I think I, that first strategy call that we had kind of gave me an insight into- to. That this is what it could look like to work with someone that- that knows, you know, more about this.
16:51 Paul Neal: I'd- . I felt that from reading your book and having that call, I got on quite well with you, so I wanted to know more.
16:57 Paul Neal: And I think, when it came to that point- of around the ability to work more closely with you, it came down to two things for me.
17:06 Paul Neal: It came down to that kind of time. Because of building it part-time whilst also doing something else. And that kind of affordability element to me.
17:15 Paul Neal: But I think the time committed. Because I, I want to- And in your wedding at the time. I 
17:19 Nicholas Poninski: remember telling you, 
17:20 Paul Neal: you've got to make a 
17:21 Nicholas Poninski: decision on what I'm 
17:22 Paul Neal: trying to do. Do you? Do you? Do you? You get married, or do you work on your business, and it's a-no, so-so I did both.
17:28 Paul Neal: Um, but that whole kind of, um. Mm-hmm. Building it over time, and, you know, building it over the 12 weeks, mapping things out.
17:38 Paul Neal: Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to have gone down the route- doing the- the kind of, like, fast track formula kind of route.
17:45 Paul Neal: But, the time to do that along the- the wedding along the side of the work, umm, wasn't, you know, and the potential kind of investment of that wasn't right at the time.
17:56 Paul Neal: Who knows for the future. Um, but yeah, I think the success squad definitely felt like the right thing at the right time.
18:02 Paul Neal: And, you know, didn't trigger a divorce. Well, the wedding happened either. 
18:09 Nicholas Poninski: Speaking of that, how did you find the workload? Because obviously, the- Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you heard Lisa's podcast, but she was talking about how her husband kept her on track, like, have you done your homework?
18:20 Nicholas Poninski: Like, um, and obviously there is bits to do, you know, because I can't do it for you. Um, but you know, obviously there is.
18:28 Nicholas Poninski: It is the chat GPT prompts, the templates, the best practices, you know, the content isn't the most difficult thing to create now, right?
18:37 Nicholas Poninski: No, it 
18:37 Paul Neal: wasn't, and I- I think there was bits I really enjoyed, like building my- my- You customer persona. I really loved that.
18:47 Paul Neal: Cause I was like, I read it and I shared it with a couple of my clients and they were like, why have you written about me?
18:53 Nicholas Poninski: It's like 
18:54 Paul Neal: this weird, psychopathic insight to what my customers are like. Um, yes, there was bits I agree really enjoyed, but in the other bits about like, you know, what do you see as your low bar entry offers?
19:08 Paul Neal: face. Okay. Like, I still did the homework, still committed to it, still took like, you know, an hour or two a week to work through.
19:16 Paul Neal: All right. All right. But there were some bits that I enjoyed less, so like my, my lead magnet page. age.
19:25 Paul Neal: Was I kept going back to it and kept going. I like it. I don't like it. I'll come back to it.
19:31 Paul Neal: And I think like, I think I've finished. The success squad. Umm, what was it? A couple of weeks ago now.
19:39 Paul Neal: But I launched my lead magnet. Okay. Like last week. So it's, it's, I think, because I was like doing so much on the website in terms of full redesign.
19:49 Paul Neal: Yeah, 
19:50 Nicholas Poninski: paying the dumb tax 
19:51 Paul Neal: doing it myself as opposed to paying someone to do the website for me. I was very much like, now's not the right time.
19:57 Paul Neal: Now's not the right time. Now's not the right time. So, but yeah. Homework was achievable. What I would, I would say to, you know, if I go back and speak to myself at the start of the program, just starting is enough rather than trying to get some sort of, infection level website.
20:15 Paul Neal: Yeah. Yeah. And I'd just be kinder on myself not to rain for that perfection. That version 1 is better than 
20:22 Nicholas Poninski: version 1. Exactly. Yeah. 
20:25 Paul Neal: And what do we say 
20:26 Nicholas Poninski: about that degree in Cambridge University? Well, there needs to be 70%, right? To get first. So, don't worry about perfection.
20:37 Nicholas Poninski: So Yeah, so let's talk about, um, when we started working together, what were the biggest shifts in the first few weeks once we started working together?
20:50 Paul Neal: I would say narrowing down and actually focusing on what I wanted to work on. So, 
20:52 Nicholas Poninski: aiming at Charis. 
20:53 Paul Neal: It is not aiming at, you know, SME's in disguise. Umm, really narrowing down on what am I doing- You know, not that everyone can offer a, you know, a click this button to gain access to my personal number.
21:09 Paul Neal: You know, send me, you know, I will send you the world's most vanilla policies, or would you like a retainer?
21:16 Paul Neal: It's the same. It's the- It's available from everyone else in the country. I think I really, I really like that kind of, let's make it specific.
21:25 Paul Neal: Let's make to your industry. Let's make it specific to that. I think I, I fell into my element then. And you in the next because I fell into SME.
21:36 Paul Neal: I mean, I did, I did this thing when I first set up and I was like, let me have a- look at my town on Google Maps.
21:44 Paul Neal: And I looked up all the businesses in the area, and the most random of businesses in terms of those, like, uuuh, uuuh, a butcher, a baker, a candlestar, no candlestick maker.
21:53 Paul Neal: But, um, you get the point, you kind of like that. How do 
21:55 Nicholas Poninski: I pitch to, 
21:56 Paul Neal: like, this method? Little smiths versus this butcher's, and just kind of ended up kind of just stuck. So, the- the folks- on the charities and being able to specifically say, I know exactly what the issues are.
22:10 Paul Neal: I know that you're gonna have people that run charity shops like they think they're- social clubs as opposed to actually businesses, or, you know, you often can only afford to pay staff minimum wage, so, you know, you- really need to look at what the other benefits and the other focuses on.
22:25 Paul Neal: It really gave me- it gave me the energy, because I know- I know what it's like as a- and being able to then go, how can I help other branches, other charities?
22:35 Paul Neal: It- yeah, it- put a new lease a lot- life into it, and I think that was- that was one of those forks in the road, because if I just stuck with the SME room, I don't think I'd still be doing it today.
22:46 Paul Neal: Because how 
22:47 Nicholas Poninski: do you- how do you fall in 
22:48 Paul Neal: love with generic vanilla business number four, rather than, you know- a- a charity that's deciding, you know, what it's doing around animal welfare, for example.
23:00 Paul Neal: But yeah, I think those- those probably- the major shifts for me, erm, that and figuring out what a good advert looks like because, you know, I'm- Well, I 
23:12 Nicholas Poninski: like that. So we gave you some direction, erm, I think that's the big one as well. We think a lot of- which are consultants are missing that.
23:20 Nicholas Poninski: It's like who you're selling to and what you're selling to them. Because unless you know that, then how can you go to my, I can't.
23:26 Nicholas Poninski: How can you go out there and say, hey, give me some money. I'll help you build your business. Like, the, the, the, the, those are the two big, What are you selling, fee you're selling it to?
23:37 Nicholas Poninski: Once you've got that, then you can start going to mike it and it feels a lot more aligned because you know, what you're doing, you've got those foundations in place.
23:45 Nicholas Poninski: So, I'm glad you've touched on that. That's good. Yeah. So, I was, um, yeah. So, talk me through the moment when things start to feel more controlled and more predictable.
23:57 Nicholas Poninski: So, I think they felt more controlled and more 
24:00 Paul Neal: predictable when I did my first kind of, like, like, sales call. And then, um, kind of, like, uhh, 
24:06 Nicholas Poninski: permission 
24:07 Paul Neal: based, are you okay if I do a sales call with you? I'm going to ask you some open and honest questions.
24:12 Paul Neal: You know, if we, if it works, we can proceed. And if it doesn't, we can agree to part ways. And my previous calls, I'd kind of talk them through- this glossy PowerPoint presentation, like I was working for one of the big four consultancy companies, and then I'd present them the cost at the end.
24:30 Paul Neal: And then, nothing, you know, 
24:34 Nicholas Poninski: well, I've gone to spam 
24:35 Paul Neal: filter or something. But the- One I did where I- I followed the script you had. I charity-fied it, if that's even a word.
24:44 Paul Neal: Umm, had the call. Oh. They did most of the talking. Not me. Rare. Lord. Umm. 
24:50 Nicholas Poninski: And they did most of the 
24:51 Paul Neal: talking. They talked through their problems. And obviously I had to sit on my hands. In terms of, oh my god, I can help with that.
24:56 Paul Neal: Or I've got a really, I've got a really exciting contract that I can't wait for you to see, which is just obviously not the thing.
25:02 Paul Neal: HR people get really excited about that. You know, you should see our non-compete clause, no, boring. Umm, but, umm. Yeah, being able to have that conversation really reflect their language back to them.
25:15 Paul Neal: And then I was like, cool, gonna send you a little agreement for you to review and- sign if you call with it, let's proceed.
25:21 Paul Neal: And in about six, seven minutes, they'd come back and sign it. I mean, don't give me wrong, my first reaction.
25:26 Paul Neal: What should I have charged more? But, ah, that kind of. I've never had that before. I've never had that kind of- instant.
25:36 Paul Neal: Yes, let's do it really excited. You absolutely get my vibe. You know, previous ones. I've had clients- Bye! That's where, or, you know, prospective clients where I've withdrawn the offer that I've made to them, because you throw it out there and then- Oh, yeah, we're just scoping the market, which is
25:53 Paul Neal: cover. We're not willing to tell you no, and- and then suddenly you've- find out they've gone with someone else. You know, and you often find that out because it's on their website, or it's on the client, you know, the- the company's website.
26:07 Paul Neal: So yeah, it was- it's the first time I've had a client come back to me and go, yes, straight away, as opposed to, thanks for your- quote or stop, never to be heard from again.
26:17 Paul Neal: Yeah. Yeah, and that's quite- don't get me wrong, I've had a- like, you know, where you're like, oh, I really wanted that customer.
26:27 Paul Neal: But that kind of vibe of, that was really simple, that was really easy. And it got me business. I'm like, ooh, let's do that again.
26:34 Paul Neal: Good. Yeah, so you 
26:35 Nicholas Poninski: have a process. Yes, I do. I have a process. Have a 
26:39 Paul Neal: fall. You know what to do to 
26:43 Nicholas Poninski: get people to go from prospect to cloud. Yep. Yep. Yeah, and I think it's a mouth. 
26:50 Paul Neal: Yeah, no, and then last 
26:51 Nicholas Poninski: thing, I still, 
26:53 Paul Neal: you know, I'm sort of understand what it sounds like. Frost kind of prospect all the way up to like a super warm lead and convert them from that to a actual client.
27:11 Paul Neal: See, I will- I was listening. Umm, and so, yeah, it's one gold star. Umm, so yeah, so it works. I hope that makes sense.
27:19 Paul Neal: Umm, I'm still not entirely sure of the magic behind why it works. Umm, but, but it does work. Like, and I'm, I'm happy with it.
27:30 Paul Neal: Good. I 
27:33 Nicholas Poninski: you out there a little bit of coaching. Thank you for your works because they know that you're for them. Yeah.
27:39 Nicholas Poninski: Like, you know, that's half the battle. They're not thinking, you know. They're not wondering who is this. What did they do in?
27:46 Nicholas Poninski: Why should I pay any attention? You've already grabbed them and they know that you're for them. They know that you are selling what they need.
27:56 Nicholas Poninski: And it's just a case of when is the right time for them to buy from you. Which is where all the news letters comes in, and the office, and all that good stuff, right?
28:04 Nicholas Poninski: You're right, and that, that, funnily enough, that 
28:06 Paul Neal: has worked, cause I'd- someone I spoke to last year, who was like, umm, you know, not ready yet, kind of our current contract, you know, is due to come to an- end, and they messaged me off the back of one of my newsletters last week, and we're like, about that call, you know, can we have it in December
28:23 Paul Neal: ? Umm, so yeah, that that calls happen. They said, yes, they signed up. Um, so yeah, it definitely keeps you on their radar, particularly when you're Thank you.
28:31 Paul Neal: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's incredible what can happen when you bring that. 
28:37 Nicholas Poninski: Definitely up. and As you like to say, when you bring that trauma to them. Yeah, yeah. So for those of you that it's longer.
28:45 Nicholas Poninski: Vwanga. Don't know, get in existence of where they want to get to. And when you- You Are talking about these worlds, that's when they pay attention.
29:00 Nicholas Poninski: Because they don't care about employment law, but they do care about the facts that- the staff aren't performing very well and how that's affecting things and whatever else.
29:08 Nicholas Poninski: And they want to be in a world where they just turn up and the staff are managing themselves. And everyone's pulling in the right direction and blah, blah, blah.
29:15 Nicholas Poninski: Thoughts of them about this stuff and magic happens. next question comes. . . . . So, if you look at where you were before we started working together and where you are now, what's- It stands out the most.
29:30 Nicholas Poninski: It stands out. It's a good 
29:32 Paul Neal: question. You can thank you. Catch you, P.T. See 
29:36 Nicholas Poninski: you. Yes, thank you. Thank 
29:38 Paul Neal: you, generic 
29:39 Nicholas Poninski: robot number four. 
29:40 Paul Neal: Um, sorry, we should call an employee each and each week. No. Um. And I think that's calling my robot, Overlord.
29:47 Nicholas Poninski: You broke over. Yes. We 
29:49 Paul Neal: thank them now in case when they do take over, they will, they will. Leave us alive. Uhm, I hope so.
29:55 Paul Neal: Yeah. I think what, what stands out for me the most is that. it. I actually feel like I know what I'm doing and then that whole kind of.
30:06 Paul Neal: This feels less like. A future possible maybe and really like that point where I. Okay. In the future I, you know, it could be something that I'm, that takes over my entire life, that I then have to start employing people as part of.
30:24 Paul Neal: My company, which, even when I say that now, I'm like, oh, it feels weird. Um, but that wasn't a possibility before I started.
30:32 Paul Neal: I'm working with you that one. I mean, in fairness, that wasn't even a thought before I started working with you.
30:37 Paul Neal: Initially, this was, uh, it was a small side. I thought possibly might be cool and, you know, I was giving away the advice for charities for free and- And suddenly it was like I could turn this into a business.
30:51 Paul Neal: But, uh, I now know that I could- I can go much further. You know, and it's- to suddenly be able to turn something you love into a business.
31:02 Paul Neal: It's- Yeah, it's- it's a cool thing to do. Love it. That's good. 
31:10 Nicholas Poninski: I think that's- that's the- That makes me- makes me happy to hear, mate. Uh, thank you for your help. My- my 
31:19 Paul Neal: pleasure. 
31:20 Nicholas Poninski: So, Well, ah, we're just gonna wrap things up very soon, but for someone listening along, who's where you were, you know, I'm posting, hoping, guessing.
31:28 Nicholas Poninski: What would you say to them? I suppose, 
31:35 Paul Neal: you've got a choice. You can- And either, you know, you can- you can post you in hyping guests. Uhm, and you might get there, you might- happen to stumble across someone that happens to be on that social media platform at the exact same time as when your post is at the end of and see it and go, ah, yes
31:54 Paul Neal: , that, that fits perfectly with what, with what I want. But if you're posting, generic stuff, people will soon ago, oh that's not for me rather than, yes there is for me.
32:08 Paul Neal: I, I decided to learn that the hard way initially. But in terms of what I'd say, in terms of first steps, get the book.
32:16 Paul Neal: I would recommend printing the book out. I would recommend writing all over the book, uhm, in terms of, you know, what your plan is.
32:23 Paul Neal: Uhm. Going at your pace is one thing. Uhm, and the book will get you there. But if you're impatient like me, there are other options.
32:33 Paul Neal: Uhm, yeah, and I think, bluntly without the book, I don't- No, whether I would have- I'd still be looking at charities and B-corps.
32:44 Paul Neal: I'd still not be doing adverts. I'd still be producing very- glossy pictures of forests with sunsets and amazingly gorgeous views that are- Okay.
32:57 Paul Neal: But yeah, I think that- that early blunt feedback around if- you confuse you lose. No one cares about your logo.
33:10 Paul Neal: Gave me that reality check to go. I'm going to go. Yeah, I'm not serving my customers. Love it. 
33:18 Nicholas Poninski: And what would you want people to understand? And they're all working closely with me. That you're going to get honesty from Nick.
33:28 Nicholas Poninski: Take a 
33:28 Paul Neal: look. It feels weird talking about you and the third person. That you're, no. You're going to get honesty from you.
33:34 Paul Neal: That you don't. You don't. You know, fluff things up and lose the meaning to it. If it is, if it's not working, you will just say.
33:44 Paul Neal: But equally, if, If it is working, or it is like, do you are really honest about that? And I think, yeah, if you're, if you're after someone that, Skirts around the issue doesn't really say what the problem is, and, and gives you nothing, then you're not their person, whereas if you want some, and that
34:01 Paul Neal: , you know, genuinely wants to see you set up for 70k a year, I mean, I'm joking, we have set you the challenges I want.
34:09 Paul Neal: I'm gonna 70k tax in a year, but there we go. You know, if, if, if you genuinely want someone that's gonna get you the air, I've seen as part of the s- success squad not been the only person in that group.
34:20 Paul Neal: You know, there's been a bundle of us that have been of various stages of our career. Yeah. Some in that kind of enviable position.
34:25 Paul Neal: If you look at their website and go, they've clearly got it all together. And why are they on this course?
34:25 Paul Neal: And then people that have had the same s*** s*** s*** level as you, you know, is either. You think they're just making it up all along just like me.
34:39 Paul Neal: But yeah, if you want someone that's able to help. You at any level of that perspective to get to what's next.
34:45 Paul Neal: Then, yeah, speak to you Nick, because, you know, you know, you your stuff. 
34:49 Nicholas Poninski: Aww. Appreciate hearing that. You're welcome. Warm it by cold day. My dog. 
34:59 Paul Neal: And he's there. I guess let's close things up. So. What. 
35:05 Nicholas Poninski: Yeah, well, what's next to you? Now things feel clearer, more predictable. I know that obviously we talked offline and you were.
35:13 Nicholas Poninski: Applying for that big role, because you were running this as a, you know, your business as a side hustle and you were applying for that big role.
35:20 Nicholas Poninski: Umm. Is, uhm, where, where, where do you want to go next? I, 
35:27 Paul Neal: for me it's, I want to do this full time. Bye I, for me this is, this is what I love.
35:33 Paul Neal: I've got about 10,000 years until I'm eligible to retire. your time. So, you know, I've got a, I've got a while 
35:42 Nicholas Poninski: going. 
35:43 Paul Neal: And, yeah, I want to do something that I enjoy. Enjoy. You know, I think the plan is, is to scale this to a point where actually I can step away from full-time employment.
35:53 Paul Neal: and. And go, you know, I want to do what I love properly fully. Have enough clients behind me that I haven't got to give up.
36:02 Paul Neal: The, you know, the daily energy drinks or, you know, the lemonade budget or whatever it is. Um, but- You Yeah, I think the exciting thing is, might I be an employer at some point?
36:15 Paul Neal: Might I be one of those unscrupulous people that have HRs? These letters sent to them, I don't know, we'll see.
36:20 Paul Neal: Uhm, but yeah, I think what's next is that kind of scaling it, making it bigger, helping more charities really kind of, you know, sharing that value through the reviews, the testimonials and everything.
36:34 Paul Neal: around how I've helped people. Uhm, yeah. I mean, I still, it's been six months. . . . Uhm, and yeah, who knows what the next six months go, like, the next year.
36:48 Paul Neal: You know, that typical question of like, w where are you going to be in five years? I'm hoping minted and retired, but, you know, we'll see.
36:56 Paul Neal: I'll, I'll settle for having a consultancy. Let's out and see. With some employees and a lot of charities like working with us as well.
37:03 Paul Neal: Nice. And then, is there, I guess, last. I'm step. The question is that 
37:07 Nicholas Poninski: anything else you wish you'd known at the start. Uhm, heh, heh, heh. I just 
37:12 Paul Neal: want I'm 
37:17 Nicholas Poninski: not. I don't know if, That's a 
37:23 Paul Neal: really tough one to answer. I mean, there's several things jumped into my mind, like, you know, how to price properly.
37:30 Paul Neal: Uhh, I think it was one of the things that would have helped really early on, because I- I set pricing- Thank watching.
37:38 Paul Neal: So low initially that I was like, that's, you know, I'm gonna win, because I'm cheap. But I didn't realize that some people look and go, it shouldn't be that low- therefore something's wrong and that you lose customers that way.
37:49 Paul Neal: Umm, I think the- I mean, I may- I need the change from generic SME to doubling down on charities in about three weeks.
37:58 Paul Neal: Yes, I wish I'd done it sooner, but maybe I'm being unkind. On myself, because that was, like, less than a month.
38:05 Paul Neal: Yeah, it's pretty quick. Yeah. Um, no, I don't, I don't think there's anything I wish. I'd have known early. I think, bluntly, I, I found you and your services at the right time.
38:18 Paul Neal: Bye. Because, until such time as I was in this arena, uhh, I didn't even know any of this stuff existed.
38:26 Paul Neal: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That sounds 
38:28 Nicholas Poninski: remarkably familiar. I hear that a lot. I think it's one of those things that I, you know. No. Self-emplayed hate drug consoles.
38:36 Nicholas Poninski: Anybody who got self-emplayed, they're really great at what they do. But as soon as you got self-emplayed, you work in mics and in sales.
38:42 Nicholas Poninski: Yeah, and I don't get me 
38:47 Paul Neal: wrong, I can do it, I can do it all right into view. Thank you. When you're trying to sell yourself as a person to another business, is a whole different ballgame.
39:04 Paul Neal: Yeah. Yeah, it's like. Starting it off with, I'm a really good HR person. Doesn't, it don't work. No, I don't care.
39:13 Paul Neal: No, I don't care. No, I 
39:15 Nicholas Poninski: don't. I 
39:16 Paul Neal: don't care. Well, fair enough. Well, thank you 
39:21 Nicholas Poninski: for joining us for that. I'm going not have any more questions. Is there, I guess, anything that you want to say is a final, final tip, final.
39:29 Nicholas Poninski: No. Final nudge. Uhm, I would say, you know, kind of, I mentioned it earlier, but the book is a great start.
39:36 Paul Neal: about. And I'm Well, I'm I'll see I'm going break. Let's see. . . It's definitely a kind of like an inside like, you know, kind of an eye under the kind of like the hood of what's going on.
39:47 Paul Neal: Uhm, and getting that help. Uhm, yeah, I definitely recommend it. Uhm, I still- I still- haven't finished it. Thank you for- but it's- I'm- I'm about three shots away from it.
39:59 Paul Neal: It's full of notes, but as I said, I was impatient. And the success squad allowed me to kind of skip to the good bit.
40:06 Paul Neal: Uhm, would be what I'd add. Excellent. Yeah, I'll skip to the good bit. 
40:12 Nicholas Poninski: So, there's a point where in time, time is so precious. We are not getting it back. So. Yeah. Fair enough.
40:21 Nicholas Poninski: Well, thank you for joining me. Uhm, and for those of you listening along at home, hopefully this, uhh, this has been an interesting for you, and valuable, if Paul's story has resonated with you, if he's heard parts of yourself in this before and after j- and working with me might be the best thing for
40:39 Nicholas Poninski: you and your business. So it's, if the option is the fastening. The formula is the program where we build the same structure.
40:45 Nicholas Poninski: Paul talks about the messaging, the positioning, the pipeline, the confidence, the clarity. What you're at. You're actually selling who you're actually selling it to so you get all that, as I say, that clarity.
40:56 Nicholas Poninski: And fast-lane is hands-on, it's personal, it's tailored to you. Stay. By step. Week by week. And we begin on the 12th of December, and there are only a few places available.
41:06 Nicholas Poninski: So if you'd like to grab one. You've got two options. You can grab your spot directly from the link in the show notes or if you want to talk it free with me first, you can book a short call.
41:15 Nicholas Poninski: Completely no pressure either way. All the links are in the show notes. In the meantime, in the meantime, thanks for listening along.
41:23 Nicholas Poninski: Thanks for Paul joining me, and as ever, get marketing. Because without marketing, there's no sales. And without sales, there's no business.
41:30 Nicholas Poninski: So get marketing.